sadly may 2021 reports davosagenda has cancelled aug 2021 update from singapore- next stops geneva mountains jan 22?
mahbubani syllabus- breaking news jan 2021 - singapores leader shares views at davos agenda and welcomes opportunity to stage entire weforum summit in august

1 Special Address by Lee Hsien Loong, Prime Minister of Singapore

Public Speakers: Børge Brende, Lee Hsien Loong

when we surveyed goal 1 end poverty world bankers like jim kim about number 1 educatorof sdg generation he said sir fazle abed; when we asked fazle abed about coalition partners of university coalition he said a consensus among most asian ambassadors was singapore for knowing where to connect with and korea if you want to inspect some innovations humanising ai before you did a grand tour of china's connections such as the schwarzman triad: beijing's tsinghua, boston's mit, oxford's rhodes on number 1 educator /alumni netwrk to learn from he said sir fazle abed;

united labs for all human hope and love
-in the 2010s more data than humans had ever seen before was created by satellites and mobile devices; moreover 10 dollar computer chips had caught up with the number crunching ability of human brains- and unlike us 7.5 billion people could be cloned to operate specific systems in real time- eg soon driving and policing of cars can be done by the artificials but this begs a question what priority help do 7.5 billion people need? why over 15 years were autnonomous cars priortitised over ending viruses/ the answer is people at the top of the biggest organisations do not see natures challenges to us beings at ground level; the challenge of how to prioritise human ai was popular in the economist of the 1970s partly becuase a journalist had been privilieged to be one of the last people to interview von neumann whose legacy has been 60 years of ai labs started up with twins in 1960 facintg the atlantic out of bostons mit and facing the pacific out of stanford- exercise fingd a globe and point to a place where one thousandth of humans mediates a bigger diversity of demands for humanising tech than anywhere else? did you choose singapore: a island at the apex of the 2 coastlines that 70% of humans being asian depend most on for world trade shipping -while you should certainly choose anywhere on the globe you like to do this survey its extraordinary what can be learnt from singaporeans if 2021 is to be the most exciting and loving year after the hopelessyear of covid 2020 ...
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Thursday, November 19, 2020

 video 1

10.46 wang qiang

ives me great pleasure to attend the 10:31 2021 10:32 new economy forum virtually 10:36 on behalf of the chinese government 10:39 i wish to extend warm congratulations on 10:42 the opening of the 10:51 the international environment is 10:53 undergoing profound changes 10:55 and once in a century pandemic continues 10:57 to 10:58 spread the global economy has shown some 11:01 signs of recovery 11:04 this foundation is not yet solid as 11:06 evidenced by the acute problems of sharp 11:08 fluctuations 11:09 high fragility 11:11 and structural imbalances 11:28 in the face of these shifting 11:29 circumstances 11:31 the communist party of china and the 11:33 chinese government 11:34 have taken into account 11:36 both domestic and international 11:38 environments 11:39 followed a coordinated approach to 11:41 covered response 11:44 and social economic development 11:46 and made some progress embarrassing 11:50 on the domestic front we have grounded 11:52 our efforts in the new development stage 11:54 and applied the new development 11:56 philosophy 11:57 to foster a new development paradigm 12:00 and pursuing 12:01 high quality 12:03 development 12:05 following the general principles seeking 12:06 progress while 12:08 stability 12:09 we ensuring 12:10 on managing our own affairs well 12:12 in response to people's inspiration 12:15 for a better life 12:21 on the external front how much 12:27 [Music] 12:29 to share market opportunities with the 12:31 wider world 12:33 we explicitly observed true 12:36 multilateralism resolutely defended the 12:39 world's common interests 12:41 and push forward 12:45 high quality 12:46 belt and road corporation 12:51 international cooperation against coffee 12:52 19. 12:53 we have honored our commitments and lift 12:56 up to our responsibility 12:58 we can't be making major contributions 13:03 the global fight against the corona 13:05 virus 13:08 last week 13:10 the 19th cpc center committee 13:13 successfully convened a sixth plenary 13:15 session 13:17 the session comprehensively summarized 13:19 the major achievements 13:21 and historical 13:23 appearance of the cpc over the past 13:25 century 13:28 and a quarter pound the entire party 13:30 and all chinese people 13:59 isolation of the world 14:01 and nor can the world develop 14:04 without china 14:06 china will not waver 14:08 and it's resolved to deepen reform and 14:10 expand opening up 14:14 china's development 14:15 is a great cause 14:17 that is part of the progress 14:18 of the entire humanity 14:21 going forward 14:24 china will keep his arms wide open 14:29 investment and the growth opportunities 14:31 to the world 14:34 and contribute 14:36 to the building of an open world economy 14:40 and a community with a shared future 14:42 for mankind 14:58 there are also some new trends and 15:00 opportunities 15:04 we need to be more open-minded 15:07 think more creatively 15:09 and take more programmatic steps 15:13 to jointly create 15:14 a brighter future 15:16 for the world economy 15:20 we need to join hands to fight covenant 15:23 in 15:37 the international community should work 15:38 in concert 15:40 and follow a science-based attitude 15:44 to tackle and defeat the virus 15:47 we need to support each other's response 15:49 efforts 15:51 and strengthen cooperation in monitoring 15:53 tools therapeutic medicines 15:56 and research production 15:58 and mutual recognition of vaccines 16:02 in order to effectively forge 16:04 a synergy against the pandemic 16:08 we need to promote fair 16:10 and equitable distribution of vaccines 16:13 worldwide 16:14 and in particular 16:16 step up support for developing countries 16:20 to ensure 16:34 of science 16:37 firmly oppose 16:38 politicization of issues involving 16:40 vaccines and origins tracing 16:44 and jointly built a global community of 16:46 health 16:58 openness brings progress 17:00 whereas isolation leads to backwardness 17:05 we need to promote trade and investment 17:08 liberalization and facilitation 17:10 bring down trade and knowledge barriers 17:13 stay away from discriminatory and 17:16 exclusive rules and systems 17:20 and keep the functioning of supply 17:21 chains stable 17:24 and smooth 17:27 we need to jointly make the pi of 17:29 convergent interests bigger 17:32 enhance the complementarity and the 17:34 synergy of our national development 17:36 strategies 17:37 and regional and international 17:39 development agendas 17:57 philosophies and models resolve the 18:00 issue of unbalanced and insufficient 18:02 development 18:05 more equal development opportunities 18:08 and make the fruits of development 18:10 shared by all 18:14 need to join hands to promote a green 18:16 transition 18:17 and innovation-driven development 18:21 all countries should uphold the 18:22 principle 18:24 of common but differentiated 18:26 responsibilities 18:28 honestly implement the paris agreement 18:29 on climate change 18:32 and the outcomes of cop 15 of the 18:34 convention on biological diversity 18:40 we need to coordinate efforts in 18:41 economic growth 18:43 people 18:44 it's well-being energy conservation and 18:46 emission reduction 18:48 and pursue a green and low-carbon 18:51 transition of the economy in a holistic 18:54 way 18:57 we need to follow the general direction 18:59 of the ongoing scientific and 19:00 technological revolution and industrial 19:04 information and harness the power of 19:06 scientific and technological innovation 19:08 to drive the transformation and 19:10 upgrading of economic energy industrial 19:13 and consumption structures 19:16 we need to accelerate the conversion of 19:18 scientific and technological outcomes 19:21 into actual productivity 19:36 we need to join hands to improve the 19:38 global governance system 19:42 a fair just an 19:44 incredible global governance system is 19:46 an important safeguard for the steady 19:48 growth of the world economy over the 19:50 long run 19:54 we need to follow the principles of 19:56 extensive consultation join the 19:57 contribution and shared benefits 20:01 to multilateralism 20:11 [Music] 20:17 i support the law for rights and 20:19 interests 20:20 of the developing members of the 20:22 organization 20:25 we need to push forward the imf 20:27 governance reform 20:29 to increase 20:30 the representation and the voice of 20:32 developing countries 20:33 and emerging markets 20:39 we need to jointly discuss and formulate 20:42 global digital governance 20:44 rules why should improve the 20:46 multilateral institutions 20:48 for digital economy governance 20:51 established basic institutions and 20:52 normative standards on the property 20:54 rights transactions 20:56 cross-border transmission 20:58 and the security protection of data 21:00 resources 21:16 distinguished guests 21:18 the china u.s relationship is a matter 21:20 of high interest to many 21:22 yesterday 21:25 president xi jinping and president joe 21:27 biden had a virtual meeting they had an 21:30 extensive and in-depth exchange of views 21:33 on the bilateral relations and other 21:35 issues of mutual interest 21:38 and reached important common 21:39 understandings 21:42 china and the united states 21:44 are respectively the world's biggest 21:46 developing country and the biggest 21:48 developer country 21:50 whether they can handle the relationship 21:51 well 21:52 bears on the future of the 21:57 sides world add all the important common 21:59 understandings reached between the two 22:01 presidents 22:03 keep their focus on cooperation and 22:05 manage and control differences 22:08 so as to bring china u.s relations back 22:10 to the right 22:21 and stability 22:31 [Music] 22:34 please welcome to the stage bloomberg 22:36 television anchor and chief 22:38 international correspondent for 22:39 southeast asia has linda a mean 22:44 [Music] 22:54 morning everybody as you heard i'm 22:55 hustling down and we're going to start 22:57 our program today by taking stock of how 22:59 kevin 19 has appended business 23:02 assumptions 23:03 change 23:04 changed the way we work accelerated the 23:07 march of technology and we were to trade 23:09 now more importantly would like to look 23:11 ahead we're going to look to the future 23:14 out of this catastrophe a new economy is 23:17 being born how can we shape it in ways 23:19 that protect the planet and advance 23:22 prosperity for all 23:25 you know what i think i forgot to remove 23:27 my mask 23:30 have it's farming for months and it's 23:32 been almost two years now 23:35 before we get started 23:36 a few housekeeping notes first please 23:38 share your thoughts during today's 23:40 program on social media using the 23:42 hashtag if you haven't already 23:45 download it that hashtag is new economy 23:47 forum you can get that from the app uh 23:49 the app store 23:51 and um once you're logged in you'll be 23:53 able to participate in our conversations 23:55 on stage through the audience question 23:58 function on the app and the reason we're 24:00 doing this is because of course as you 24:02 saw we're having masks and it's quite 24:05 difficult to to to get you to answer 24:07 questions via a microphone send us your 24:09 questions they'll go to our moderators 24:11 you can put them to individual speakers 24:13 or the panelists now we'll also be doing 24:16 live audience falls in fact let's dive 24:18 straight into that do our first poll of 24:21 the day are you ready 24:26 what will be the pandemic's most 24:27 enduring impact on business would it be 24:30 remote work reduce business travel 24:34 redundant supply chains 24:36 a greener economy 24:39 do summon your questions your answers 24:41 we'll take a look at the results 24:42 slightly later during a 24:45 first panel but before we do that to 24:47 kick it off 24:48 we are some of our nikani farm community 24:50 members who could not be here today in 24:53 person with us to tell us about the one 24:56 thing they think must change coming out 24:59 of the pandemic 25:00 take a listen 25:09 less than two percent 25:11 of the population in low-income 25:12 countries are fully vaccinated at this 25:15 point and that is unacceptable we must 25:18 build our own production capacities 25:22 for vaccines 25:23 and not 25:25 rely on 25:27 those 25:29 facilities that exist in other countries 25:32 they 25:34 attended to their own people first 25:37 so we we were left with nothing next 25:39 time we can't afford to waste valuable 25:41 time creating a new mechanism and 25:43 raising 25:45 to mount a rapid and equitable global 25:47 response change must start here coverage 25:50 shows the paradox of the current global 25:52 order where trade flows supply chains 25:54 bounce back and yet a vital supply 25:57 vaccine 25:58 was instantly politicized and continues 26:01 to be in africa we had such a heavy 26:03 reliance on 26:05 water vaccines nearly 99 percent and we 26:08 need multinational agencies to support 26:10 those regional plans what we do now will 26:12 shape success for all future generations 26:14 we should do one important thing 26:16 rethink how we all approach hiring in 26:19 our companies because note 26:21 this is an unequal recovery i strongly 26:24 do 26:25 that businesses can be a force for drift 26:28 the time to act is now 26:32 [Music] 26:45 [Music] 26:58 [Music] 27:02 please welcome our moderator linda 27:07 ceo of mastercard michael mibach 27:10 founder and chairman of bharti 27:12 enterprises and executive chairman of 27:15 one web sunil abarthi mittal 27:18 and ceo of group jane sun 27:25 [Music] 27:31 now 27:32 the pandemic has had a profound impact 27:34 on the world 27:35 we've seen scientific breakthroughs 27:38 digital innovation that got accelerated 27:40 but we've also seen political failures 27:44 deep 27:45 invites rich versus poor east versus 27:48 west 27:49 vaccine inequity prompting a loss of 27:51 trust and governments as well as 27:53 institutions 27:55 meantime 27:56 businesses made a pivot to survive 27:59 some changes are 28:01 and others 28:02 are here to stay so what have we learned 28:04 from 28:05 this pandemic where do we go from here 28:08 how has covid shaped the world michael 28:13 farah says science saved today 28:16 vaccines 28:18 made the pandemic 28:19 manageable 28:21 in a matter of months 28:23 compared to the early 1900s 28:26 with the flu but yet five million people 28:28 have perished it'll be another six 28:31 months before three quarters of the 28:32 world gets vaccinated with the first jab 28:36 where did we fall short 28:40 i think there's no two ways about it we 28:42 fell short in multiple dimensions 28:46 they just you know shared the tragic 28:48 truth millions of lives were lost when 28:49 it's for sure true 28:51 livelihoods were lost as well so 28:54 you would think that 28:56 when you just consider the impact on 28:57 small business for example clearly the 28:59 hardest hit uh part of economy around 29:01 the world that we would have done a 29:02 better job over the years 29:05 considering that small business is the 29:07 biggest employer to keep them make them 29:08 more resilient and we didn't do that 29:12 the inequalities you talked about 29:14 east-west rich poor the digital has and 29:16 the digital have-nots 29:18 i think we have done a slightly better 29:20 job here because clearly 29:22 as we were all locked up at home the 29:24 world actually did work so 29:26 some homework was done but you can also 29:29 see that the digital divide for those 29:31 that have not been included for whom it 29:33 hasn't worked at all is opening further 29:35 so there's there's lots for us to do 29:37 i think 29:38 private sector plays a role to your 29:40 point about where failures happened i 29:42 think collaboration didn't happen to the 29:45 degree that it could have between 29:47 governments and private sector i see 29:49 much more of that as you think about 29:51 putting technology to good use 29:53 partnerships and good policy 29:55 on standards that ensure that you can 29:57 actually drive technology into 29:59 everybody's hand around the world so it 30:01 can be that force for good 30:03 i'm optimistic that we're going to do 30:04 better 30:05 then we actually took the learnings from 30:07 what happened in the last 18 months and 30:08 so we had all the time in the world to 30:09 prepare for a crisis like the pandemic 30:12 what are some of the key takeaways 30:15 well i have a slightly different take on 30:17 this i mean you can never prepare for 30:19 something like this 30:20 this was uh perhaps in our lifetime once 30:26 that you'll see this 30:27 simultaneous 30:29 almost everywhere in the world they 30:31 started to erupt 30:33 countries which are not very affluent 30:35 emerging india you know south asia 30:38 africa 30:39 generally take a you know 30:41 great deal of effort to deal with their 30:43 normal circumstances 30:46 we don't have the medical care that 30:47 required to deal with our people on in 30:49 normal times 30:50 i mean imagine uh you know catastrophe 30:53 like this a pandemic like this who could 30:55 have prepared themselves 30:57 the western world which is so advanced 30:59 was caught napping 31:01 so there was no question that countries 31:02 like india or bangladesh or africa or 31:06 still would have ever coped with this 31:08 yet let's celebrate the human effort 31:11 the ingenuity of you know mankind how we 31:14 did well 31:15 uh let's start with my own industry 31:17 telecommunications 31:19 people moved from urban centers to 31:21 countryside 31:22 not in tens of thousands 31:26 and millions but hundreds of millions 31:28 people just moved from the urban centers 31:30 people moved overnight from homes to uh 31:32 from offices to homes 31:34 the networks stayed the course 31:37 we shifted traffic overnight 31:39 from urban to rural centres from offices 31:41 to homes 31:42 i personally say this is to be 31:44 celebrated 31:46 because michael likely said work did not 31:48 stop one day we just continued medical 31:51 support emergency support work from home 31:53 regular business supply chains 31:56 everything worked well 31:58 251 million people maybe it's now 255 32:00 million people who have been 32:02 afflicted by this uh you know virus 32:06 five million have unfortunately died as 32:08 two percent as big every life must be 32:10 lost must be 32:12 moaned but the fact is the world has 32:14 come together remarkably against this 32:17 deadly virus so i would really say 32:19 we've done well and you can never ever 32:22 prepare for something like this but we 32:23 could have done better jane 32:26 let's bring you into this conversation i 32:27 mean sitting in china what are the 32:29 changes you're seeing today which you 32:31 didn't think possible 20 months ago 32:35 yes uh the pandemic has presented 32:38 tremendous challenge for the world 32:41 yet we have seen a great collaboration 32:44 in our industry 32:47 uh the technology made it possible for 32:49 us to stay connected with each other and 32:52 more more so 32:54 i see the people care about each other 32:57 no matter there is a border 32:59 among us 33:01 so at the beginning of the pandemic 33:03 china was the first country 33:06 which went into the panamics and we 33:08 received a tremendous support from 33:11 people all around the world from europe 33:13 italy india united states everywhere 33:16 once china was out and the other country 33:20 went into this pandemics and i saw 33:22 tremendous love and care from 33:26 china to the rest of the world and even 33:28 children in the city of shanghai raised 33:31 funds for the refugee kids in the middle 33:33 east to support them so i 33:36 saw a lot of challenges in the past two 33:38 years but it gives me a lot of hope that 33:42 through the collaboration through 33:44 technology 33:46 and through our human kindness we'll be 33:48 able to overcome a lot of challenges 33:51 michael cino talked earlier about how 33:53 basically we did not miss a beat life 33:55 went on work went on but there have been 33:57 changes 33:59 expectations of workers have changed 34:01 uh the great resignation is a thing not 34:04 just in the us which 34:06 for a recognition of about more than 34:08 four million people at their work the uk 34:10 is doing the same thing those in canada 34:12 are doing the same thing and the recent 34:14 survey here in singapore suggested that 34:16 of the people of all the people that 34:18 were surveyed 50 34:20 were re-looking at whether they wanted 34:22 to stay in their jobs or not so 34:24 expectations of workers 34:26 have changed sitting here as a ceo of a 34:28 company a huge company how do you see 34:30 the issue yes so the the great 34:31 resignation the great assessment or the 34:34 great reset i mean it's all a reality 34:36 but if you unpacked it 34:37 a bit i see it particularly pronounced 34:41 not so much in questions as in i need a 34:44 new source of energy 34:46 in my life and i'm rethinking it is 34:48 simply um 34:50 in industries that are in great demand 34:52 hospitality healthcare great stress 34:54 a lot of competition for best people in 34:56 our industry anybody who knows anything 34:58 in ai digital digital identity cyber 35:02 hot skills those are the people that are 35:04 in demand 35:06 and those are the people they're saying 35:08 i am feeling huge pressure every day in 35:10 what i do can i do better let me look 35:13 elsewhere even if i cannot do better 35:15 maybe i can be paid better so there's a 35:17 lot of competition going on and that's 35:19 been always the case in these industries 35:21 now pronounced because the pandemic put 35:23 a lot of pressure on the system 35:26 i think that's the fundamental trend um 35:29 when you peel the onion a bit more 35:31 there's an aspect about people are 35:34 looking for some source of additional 35:36 fulfillment 35:37 um they won't be connected to their 35:39 passions make a difference i'll give you 35:40 an example we last year we said you're 35:42 all very busy the zoom days are 35:46 blur 35:47 would you like to do something else 35:48 beyond and hands went up across the 35:50 company is i want to help on financial 35:52 inclusion i want to help on you know 35:54 helping small business etc so that does 35:57 play a role but it's fundamentally 35:59 competition for for hot skills that are 36:01 under great demand 36:02 what do you have to do as an employer 36:05 recognize 36:06 that it's a reality and say i have 36:09 targeted compensation plans i ensure 36:11 well-being is a thing now because we are 36:13 seeing a lot of people getting close to 36:14 burnout because of all of that demand um 36:17 so it is happening 36:19 um 36:20 i i think it's going to be something 36:22 that we will see for a period of time as 36:25 the 36:26 the recovery from covet is not going to 36:28 be near term so it's going to be with us 36:30 for a while and as the private sector we 36:32 have to manage through that carefully 36:33 but i think there's been good learnings 36:35 in the last 18 months what are you 36:37 seeing in india a billion people 36:38 millions joining the workforce every 36:40 single year 36:42 a great reassessment 36:44 yeah you know for india livelihoods 36:46 always were 36:47 perhaps a little more important 36:50 people need work people have to work we 36:54 still have to get wealthy as a nation 36:57 but there has been a fundamental shift 36:59 and you see it from very close quarters 37:01 people 37:02 you know are reassessing their options 37:07 uh my own viewers if you press everybody 37:08 to come back to the office and by the 37:09 way i'm in 37:11 michael bloomberg's camp which says we 37:12 must work as groups we must work as 37:15 teams we need to get back to the office 37:17 but by you to press everybody to come to 37:19 office 37:20 perhaps a very large section of them may 37:21 not want to come back 37:23 now is is this permanent 37:26 can they afford to stay away from our 37:28 work stream or just do jobs which can 37:30 allow them the flexibility it's hard to 37:32 predict 37:41 the problem is 37:43 you allow 37:52 bus or a car to do the one hour drive 37:54 back and forth 37:56 it just becomes an unfair situation do 37:58 you create a separate cardo for work 38:00 from home who have lower increments who 38:02 have slower career options 38:04 uh compared to 38:06 those people who make the sacrifice to 38:08 come to office this is the conundrum 38:09 each one of us as chief executives are 38:11 going to face 38:12 and large part i would say is also now 38:15 people are not used to getting dressed 38:16 up in the morning and get getting ready 38:18 to work 38:18 [Laughter] 38:19 you have to special occasion today yeah 38:22 you have to shake up the lethargy you 38:24 got to get them back and i can tell you 38:27 once you're back in the routine and i'm 38:29 checking with people almost daily in my 38:30 office 95 people are back my operating 38:34 units are still 50 38:36 but once people decide to come back they 38:38 enjoy it they like it so my view is 38:41 everything is assessed at a particular 38:43 point in time 38:44 eventually when the world comes 38:47 back to near normal you'll never be 38:48 normal i think you'll start to see 38:50 people coming back to work a lot more 38:52 michael i'll get back to you i know you 38:53 want to just make a comment on his 38:55 return to uh office work uh question the 38:58 um 39:00 the concentration is really in 39:02 white-collar workers who have the choice 39:04 the vast majority of people actually 39:05 don't even have a 39:07 choice so that's a it's a question 39:09 that's discussed with a minority 39:11 essentially 39:12 and here i think there's a risk of 39:14 unintended side consequences everything 39:16 you said people that can't make the 39:17 sacrifice or not but just think about 39:19 the following what happens once the mute 39:21 button is pressed what happens after the 39:23 meeting this is when there's impact of 39:25 careers that 39:27 are being shaped and imagine a world 39:28 that is let's say a lot of women making 39:30 the decision to work from home so they 39:32 can support their families better and 39:34 men do the other side you have a 39:36 perpetuation of 39:38 lack of gender diversity that those are 39:40 some of the intended side consequences 39:42 we really have to think through so i'm 39:43 with you 39:45 back together is better 39:47 i got it the right way and jane when you 39:49 take a look at china the young people 39:50 are pretty disillusioned uh they're 39:52 finding it difficult to find jobs 39:54 they're not getting married fertility 39:56 rate at 1.3 39:58 what's the sense you're getting there 40:00 yes china 40:03 control the virus very well so last year 40:07 in february we already went back to work 40:10 uh full force now we are taking the 40:13 opportunity to evaluate the new hybrid 40:16 model uh so we run a b testing and pilot 40:19 program which enable our 40:22 employees to have a choice whether work 40:25 in the office or 40:27 at home so far our testing have shown 40:30 that the job satisfaction has increased 40:33 significantly um and productivity is 40:36 adhered to 40:37 so we're very pleased with the result a 40:40 different group in different regions has 40:42 shown different favors in terms of where 40:45 one they want to work 40:47 generation z and millennials prefer to 40:50 work in office because they should they 40:53 have seen enjoy the social environment 40:55 in office 40:57 working mothers really enjoy have the 40:59 flexibility to have a hybrid model so we 41:03 are still keeping monitoring the process 41:05 to make sure 41:07 that our productivity and job 41:10 satisfaction are enhanced by offering 41:12 the alternatives to our employees before 41:15 we touch on technology i want to just 41:17 quickly touch on travel has it changed 41:20 you know because we had i think tata's 41:22 china sacrament saying that you know 41:24 he's not going to make that 41:26 [Music] 41:27 halfway around the world to do a 30 41:30 minute speech unless of course it is for 41:32 the new economy forum so now what's your 41:34 take on that 41:35 i think that perhaps has fundamentally 41:37 changed if i if i look at look back at 41:40 my long years in bingham business 41:43 i'm amazed how i was packing and 41:45 unpacking all the time 41:48 before you unpack the other stress to 41:49 pack again because you need to move the 41:51 second or third day to another country 41:52 another place 41:54 i can't imagine doing that ever again so 41:56 when i've been traveling of course 41:58 travel has been relatively less i go and 42:00 anchor myself if i'm going from delhi to 42:02 london i'm there for a long period of 42:03 time rather than two days which i used 42:06 to do 42:07 early on the rush back or go to africa 42:09 or go to the us that has changed so i 42:10 would say i would roll in more meetings 42:12 around that place 42:13 do partial virtual and partial physical 42:16 and then get back but who knows i mean 42:18 i'm talking about right now 42:20 you you know we may just be back to the 42:22 old usual self but i think business 42:25 travel will suffer 42:27 from the levels it was before pandemic 42:30 so we have the finger on the pulse it's 42:32 just what we do for a living at 42:33 mastercard so we know what people do do 42:35 they do what sunil does or do they do 42:37 something different and what is what is 42:39 shown as and when travel corridors 42:41 opened 42:42 people did travel it all started with 42:45 leisure travel everybody 42:47 but is that just pent up demand yeah it 42:49 is you know seeing a family friends 42:51 again that is pent up demand but 42:53 the first the first corridors opened 42:56 you're starting to see now at a point is 42:58 you would have seen everybody and people 43:00 still travel so leisure travel kicks in 43:02 as in you're not going home you're going 43:04 to the caribbean uh so we 43:07 can actually over the summer now 43:08 business travel you're starting to see 43:10 about a six month delay on business 43:12 travel coming back 43:14 you know in conversations that i have 43:16 with airlines and people who are 43:17 customers and partners is is all about 43:20 leisure travel but as business travel 43:22 comes back you start to see customer 43:24 facing travel as a reality in 43:27 internal travel not so much you wouldn't 43:29 do 43:30 get 300 people in a room somewhere just 43:32 to talk about your own company so i 43:34 think there's moderation in the end 43:36 we'll see business level not coming back 43:38 to the same level that it was 43:40 jane definitely has the pulse on the 43:42 travel industry jane what's your take i 43:44 mean the sense out there at least 43:47 according to surveys is that 50 of 43:49 business travel will suffer 43:55 sorry the translation somehow connects 43:57 to my line so um yeah what we have seen 44:01 is uh two trends uh the first of all uh 44:04 the trends can you hear me okay because 44:06 the translation line is 44:08 we can jane go ahead 44:11 okay great so if it is one-on-one kind 44:14 of conversation it's very easy to be 44:17 replaced by a zoom call so it becomes 44:20 more efficient without travel however to 44:23 attend a conference like this i think 44:25 you will be able to meet a lot of global 44:28 leaders the value is still there so in 44:30 china where the business travel 44:32 is a robot we have seen more than 30 44:36 percent year-over-year growth for our 44:38 business travelers so uh my feeling is 44:42 uh when the uh 44:44 pandemics is over uh there will 44:47 be a pent-up demand still addressing the 44:51 business travel secondly with the work 44:54 uh at home program a lot of people will 44:57 be able to stay on the beach to have a 44:59 business call so right now in china a 45:02 very popular new world is workation 45:08 work and vacation integrated so coming 45:11 up with new products to address this 45:14 kind of demand 45:15 we learn what's every day so this is 45:18 right up your alley let's talk 45:19 technology everything online it was 45:21 amazing that the internet didn't crash 45:24 right the thing is how do you build that 45:26 technology to ensure that when the next 45:28 pandemic happens when there is 45:31 a crisis we're able to overcome even 45:33 better what needs 45:35 to be looked into what needs to be 45:37 invested into 45:39 basically i would say hard 45:41 infrastructure you need to ensure that 45:42 the underlying connectivity network 45:45 is powerful 45:48 has enough capacity and a great speed 45:50 and latency to ensure that the traffic 45:52 that is surging across the globe is well 45:54 handled secondly we must remember 45:56 there's a large part of the globe which 45:58 is still not on internet 46:01 and our last calculation suggests we 46:02 need about half a trillion dollars 46:04 to cover the rest of the world who are 46:06 not connected 46:07 today largely in the under developed 46:09 countries but even places like the us 46:11 where fcc has just done an art off rural 46:13 development opportunity fund there are 46:16 parts of u.s which don't have internet 46:18 they're parts of canada which don't have 46:19 internet so i think that is a 46:22 simultaneous equation develop and create 46:24 more robust connectivity in areas we 46:26 already are 46:28 enhance your network capacities and 46:30 quality and go to the areas which are 46:32 dark 46:32 africa very large portions of you know 46:35 people are still not on internet so all 46:37 that requires a lot of work and that 46:39 needs five seven years we need to start 46:41 to work on it now 46:43 and the pandemic has pushed 46:46 i guess the 46:48 technology to a tipping point that has 46:50 transformed business forever it has it 46:53 has now it's starting with broadband 46:54 access 3.7 billion people don't have 46:57 access at all but if you didn't say if 46:59 you assume for a moment there is a 47:01 there is access 47:02 still we've seen a lot of progress and a 47:04 lot of push throughout the last 18 47:06 months of what 47:08 needs to happen imagine a brave new 47:10 digital world and there's all these new 47:11 people that are starting to use digital 47:13 solutions that haven't before because 47:14 they didn't have a choice they had to 47:16 like ordering groceries online they 47:18 start to do that 47:19 their question of digital trust is 47:21 essential because they're not familiar 47:23 and they don't know how to stay safe 47:24 same for a small business they might 47:26 have been brick and mortar and just 47:29 change their approach to have some 47:30 online delivery proposition and they get 47:32 hacked so question of digital trust 47:34 investment in cyber security cyber 47:36 resilience and cyber 47:38 oriented policies 47:40 um is absolutely critical and i think 47:42 the real game changer when it comes to 47:44 where else should be a priority an 47:46 investment for uh 47:48 to put technology to good use to give us 47:49 that productivity boost that we all want 47:51 is digital identity in a world of 47:54 you know in a world that is all digital 47:56 if you do not have a digital identity 47:57 you are a digital have not and that is a 47:59 fundamental problem that has not been 48:01 solved it's not been solved consistently 48:03 some countries made real progress 48:05 there's a lot of infrastructure 48:08 india technology stack some countries in 48:10 the nordics that progress that but it is 48:12 a gaping hole in this world and i think 48:14 there's uh that's what we should draw 48:16 our attention to 48:17 jane how are you looking at technology 48:20 absolutely it's enabler during this very 48:23 challenging time 56:50 [Music] 56:57 please welcome to the stage global 57:00 managing partner of mckenzie and company 57:02 bob 57:04 [Music] 57:10 stenfels hi everybody thank you it's um 57:14 it's my honor to uh to be a fire starter 57:17 for the next um uh breakout group new 57:20 paradigm for global businesses 57:22 and um as the last discussion session 57:25 highlighted 57:26 the importance of tech for our future um 57:29 is is absolutely central and i i fully 57:32 agree with that 57:33 um i would offer though that to meet the 57:36 collective challenges we're going to 57:37 need more than technology breakthroughs 57:40 we're going to need bold and urgent 57:41 leadership 57:42 so for this fire starter let me tee up 57:45 three messages three messages 57:48 the first message is the stakes are 57:50 incredibly high stakes are incredibly 57:52 high and as we look forward over the 57:55 course of this decade 57:56 we're at a crossroads and i could paint 57:59 two very different scenarios 58:01 for how this decade could play out 58:04 the first 58:05 a new age of prosperity 58:08 could grow 30 to 50 percent over this 58:11 decade with a better quality of life for 58:13 most people 58:14 a more sustainable future for our planet 58:17 true sustainable inclusive growth one 58:20 path 58:21 second path doesn't look so good it has 58:24 tepid economic recovery only 10 to 20 58:28 percent increase in gdp growth less 58:30 equitable distribution less sustainable 58:33 with worse outcomes for global health in 58:35 the environment 58:36 two radically different paths 58:39 and the stakes couldn't be higher let me 58:40 let me give a few specifics to this if 58:43 you consider climate 58:45 if we don't improve the net zero 58:48 commitments that we've all made 58:49 substantially improve we'll have one 58:52 billion people 58:53 living in lethal heat by twenty fifty 58:56 one billion people 58:58 if we think about inequality 59:00 seven of ten people today live in 59:03 societies with growing inequality 59:06 and we've seen the massive stress 59:08 that places on both public and private 59:11 institutions 59:13 and in terms of economic growth the 59:14 bookend scenarios have never been wider 59:16 than they are today as we forecast what 59:19 could be 59:20 so the stakes are high 59:22 now the second message however is we can 59:25 do this we can live into the first 59:26 scenario 59:29 at mckinsey we've done some modeling and 59:31 believe that we could have three to four 59:32 percent per annum uh gdp growth over 59:35 this decade from existing technologies 59:37 from existing technologies 59:40 similarly those same technologies if we 59:43 look at europe in particular could abate 59:46 85 percent 59:48 of the carbon today 85 percent in europe 59:51 from his existing technologies 59:53 and if you look at job creation 59:55 there is a scenario with substantial net 59:58 job growth over this decade 60:00 it requires investment in sectors from 60:02 infrastructure health care to energy 60:04 but done right job growth 60:07 can outstrip jobs dislocated through 60:09 technology two to one 60:11 two to one but it requires the right 60:13 focus on upskilling 60:16 and the goals of sustainability 60:18 inclusion and growth can also reinforce 60:20 each other and create a virtuous circle 60:23 let me let me give some specifics 60:26 more inclusive healthcare 60:28 could add half a point to global gdp 60:30 growth by 2040. 60:32 advancing women's economic potential in 60:34 the workforce could add 13 trillion to 60:36 global gdp growth 60:39 and growth rates for sustainable 60:40 products and markets outstrip 60:42 conventional ones 10 to 20 percent in 60:45 all categories 60:48 now i'm not naive driving all three 60:51 sustainability inclusion and growth 60:52 won't be easy and there's some real 60:54 tensions that need to be addressed 60:56 as technology is implemented at an ever 60:58 faster rate a hundred million people 61:00 will be need to reskilled this decade 61:03 100 million people 61:05 and energy transitions if we don't 61:07 focus will be regressive 61:10 they will be regressive if i take the us 61:12 alone 61:13 60 of low-income households face severe 61:16 energy burdens meaning they spend over 61:18 10 percent of total household income on 61:20 energy 61:21 just transitions have to be a crucial 61:23 component as we think about climate 61:25 transition 61:26 and i think we all know as 61:28 business leaders it's not easy 61:30 forty percent of our workforce right now 61:32 wants to change jobs in the next six 61:33 months the regulatory environment is 61:36 increasingly uncertain and we have 61:38 multiple stakeholder management to lean 61:40 forward if we want to be bolder all 61:42 these things come together 61:44 but i'd argue it is a time for us as 61:46 leaders to embrace long-term 61:49 capital and to be courageous which 61:50 brings me to my last my last message 61:53 we need to work together and we need to 61:55 move quickly 61:56 in reaching for sustainable inclusive 61:58 growth we have to work across the public 62:01 private divide as mike said in his 62:03 opening 62:04 it's the only way we'll find solutions 62:06 to things like standards for clients 62:10 for a mechanism that creates real 62:12 incentive to invest in human capital 62:14 and for a framework that allows us r d 62:16 investments to accelerate over this 62:18 decade to solve some of these toughest 62:20 problems 62:22 we also have to move quickly 62:24 what one thing that covet has shown is 62:26 that enterprise can move faster than 62:28 any of us expected which is good news 62:31 because these problems aren't going to 62:33 be the problems of the next generation 62:35 they're going to be the problems of our 62:36 leadership generation 62:38 so the question i have is can we lock in 62:40 this coveted speed to solve these 62:42 particular issues 62:44 so the choice is ours 62:46 we have a moment right 62:49 now to drive sustainable inclusive 62:51 growth 62:52 that won't be easy 62:54 but i'd argue we should accept nothing 62:56 less and as we go to this next panel the 62:58 question i'd ask each of you 63:00 is are we being bold enough as leaders 63:02 as we plot our course 63:04 thank you 63:05 [Applause] 63:10 ifp test test test ift test test test 63:16 [Music] 63:51 [Music] 64:06 [Music] 64:30 [Music] 64:36 [Music] 64:53 and his panelists president of the new 64:55 york stock exchange group stacey 64:57 cunningham ceo of dps group piers gupta 65:00 managing director and vice chairman of 65:02 pimco john stevzinski and chairman of 65:05 ubs group axel a 65:07 [Music] 65:15 well good morning everybody 65:17 i'm absolutely delighted to be here with 65:19 my lively and highly engaged panel and 65:22 to see you here this morning 65:24 uh before we begin i do want to remind 65:26 you 65:27 that you have the app 65:29 you've been using them already to answer 65:31 the panels 65:32 excuse me answer the polls but you can 65:34 also use them to send questions for the 65:37 panel and i'll be looking for your 65:38 questions as they come in and i'll try 65:40 to weave them into our conversation so 65:42 please 65:43 engage with me engage with the panel and 65:46 we'll make it collaborative 65:49 we have a great question to answer today 65:51 it is a question that every ceo every 65:54 cio and every boardroom around the world 65:57 should be asking itself 65:59 is there a new paradigm for global 66:02 business 66:04 we have a pretty good idea of what the 66:05 old paradigm was 66:07 we could call it globalization and that 66:09 paradigm had some highly identifiable 66:12 characteristics 66:14 free movement of capital for example 66:16 trade liberalization supply chain 66:18 expansion 66:19 cross-border interdependence and 66:21 multilateralism 66:23 also resource exploitation weight 66:26 stagnation to a degree 66:28 institutional authority 66:30 it sure feels to me and i think to 66:32 others here that that paradigm has 66:34 changed awfully fast i would point 66:38 to among other things 66:40 inflation 66:41 esg and crypto as evidence 66:44 that something is happening so i'd like 66:47 to begin 66:50 by asking 66:51 our panel 66:52 do you believe that there is 66:54 a new paradigm for global business if so 66:57 what are its dominant characteristics 67:00 are they different from the old ones and 67:02 if so how 67:03 and if there isn't 67:05 a new paradigm for global business 67:08 why not 67:09 stacy i'd like you to start the 67:10 conversation well there's definitely a 67:13 new paradigm for global business and i'm 67:14 not sure that any one of us up here can 67:16 tell you exactly what that's going to 67:17 look like just yet because there are so 67:19 many unknowns and there are so many 67:21 things happening at the same time and 67:23 their interaction is really what is 67:25 going to decide and determine what the 67:29 future of business looks like and so 67:31 many of the topics that eric mentioned 67:32 are related to that and and moving into 67:34 that but it's other things as well and 67:36 some of them are driven by 67:38 the consumer the consumer wanting a more 67:40 direct impact on their choices employees 67:43 wanting a more direct impact on how they 67:45 decide and what they want to do what 67:47 flexibility they want 67:50 the wages where they're working what 67:52 industries they're in i mean there's so 67:53 many things happening at the same time 67:55 with also looking at the globalization 67:58 of so many industries so it's definitely 67:59 going to change but i'm not smart enough 68:01 to tell you what it's going to look like 68:03 who is 68:04 well eric i i think we've also now 68:07 first of all i think we've seen the dog 68:10 but we haven't it's going to take us 68:12 quite a few years to be able to connect 68:13 the dots to see what the new paradigm 68:15 looks like 68:16 i do think though 68:18 following on tracy's comment about the 68:19 individual 68:21 i think one of the things this whole 68:22 debate about climate reaction 68:25 covet is really the first major 68:26 sustainability crisis 68:29 and it's game changing but i think that 68:31 also reintroduces this whole discussion 68:33 of the common good 68:35 and i think the expression of the common 68:37 good is something we're very conscious 68:39 of but it varies culturally and it's 68:42 something that 68:43 the americans talk about and it's 68:45 obviously something now the chinese very 68:46 much talked about in the context of 68:48 common 68:49 prosperity and the recent plenum so 68:52 i think we need to add to stacy's point 68:56 the individual and the sort of me 68:58 orientation particularly in very much in 69:00 the american 69:01 economy 69:02 to the notion of the common good and how 69:05 the new business model is going to 69:06 address the common good 69:10 if i can 69:11 come in so first of all i'm not in the 69:13 camp of the world is de-globalizing and 69:14 maybe we'll talk about that separately 69:17 but i have two messages first is i don't 69:19 think there's just a new paradigm for 69:21 global business i think there's a new 69:23 paradigm for how we run the world 69:25 and that's a lot more consequential than 69:27 how you run business 69:30 i think there are two big drivers which 69:32 we need to be really cognizant of one is 69:34 we're trying to wean away from a fossil 69:36 fuel carbon-led economy something we've 69:38 created over the last 150 years and very 69:41 rapidly swing to a completely new 69:43 economic construct there's trillions and 69:45 trillions of dollars of extant 69:47 infrastructure investment which needs to 69:49 be transitioned that's no small feat 69:52 the second is people haven't talked 69:54 about it so much wang jishan mentioned 69:56 it 69:56 i think the impact of technology in the 69:58 next decade is going to be completely 70:01 game changing 70:02 uh that includes a web 3 with 70:04 self-sovereign individuals and 70:06 self-sovereign identities it includes ai 70:10 with artificial general intelligence 70:11 increasingly allowing us to outsource 70:12 our brains and it includes a 5g world 70:15 where holographic and 3d etc make 70:17 virtual reality possible i think when 70:19 you couple this uh these two pedals i 70:22 think the green pedal and the technology 70:24 pedal one consequence of this is going 70:26 to be massive social 70:28 redistribution 70:30 so the poor people the poor countries 70:32 the lesser developed countries will face 70:35 the brunt of this transition more than 70:36 better people and that is going to 70:38 create a lot of social unrest so in that 70:40 context i think that's my second message 70:42 we have to rethink how we run the world 70:45 and that has two three big dimensions 70:46 one is role of governments 70:48 i think 70:50 you will increasingly get the world but 70:51 you have to have a lot more activist 70:52 role of the public sector that doesn't 70:54 necessarily mean big government but it 70:56 does mean more activist government 70:57 because some of the questions we're 70:59 going to deal with are questions of what 71:01 makes us human what makes us 71:02 philosophically uh the question of 71:04 philosophy i need people to help 71:06 shepherd a common state for society and 71:08 direction that's 71:10 activist government i think you need 71:11 government to catalyze investments you 71:13 need governmental de-risk investments 71:15 that's an activist government by the way 71:16 this is not the first time it's happened 71:18 you know it's happened in the 18th 71:19 century 71:20 in the fiscal sense it happened with 71:22 japan post-world war it happened with 71:24 darpa and nasa driving silicon valley in 71:27 the u.s and frankly i've seen it in 71:28 singapore since 71:30 was the best case point activist 71:31 government but i think you'll also need 71:33 a private sector which is a little bit 71:35 more attuned to what's popularly now 71:37 called stakeholder capitalism i.e a 71:39 common good agenda not just a 71:41 shareholder good agenda so i think you 71:42 need that to come together and i think 71:44 the ppp will be public private and 71:47 people because the capacity of the 71:49 individual to have a voice with social 71:52 media in the new world means the people 71:53 sector is going to be a relevant sector 71:55 one thing i think we need to take away 71:57 from this when i say manage the world 71:58 our current global multilateral 72:00 institutions are failing us we will have 72:02 to come together as one people and 72:04 therefore i can see again wang shishan a 72:06 completely new infrastructure and 72:08 architecture for 72:10 managing the digital world in the 72:11 digital economy at a global level the 72:12 united nations for digital but also i 72:15 see maybe dialing up within the current 72:17 infrastructure a new impetus for the 72:19 green economy and the green worlds i 72:20 think there's a lot of shits we need to 72:22 see in the coming decade 72:24 well if i just uh i think every time we 72:27 are in a crisis people say 72:30 this time it's different and every time 72:31 we come out of a crisis uh one of the 72:33 strongest features we find in mankind is 72:34 habit persistence we go back to our old 72:37 way so i'm much more on the page that 72:40 yes we are in a crisis crisis usually 72:42 are best managed by governments because 72:44 they have unlimited resources and can 72:46 act fast and they can actually enforce 72:48 things 72:50 so that's why we created states that's 72:52 why we created governments and 72:53 governments do their job in a crisis i 72:55 mean 72:56 say hank in the room governments did 72:58 their job in the financial crisis 73:00 governments will do their job in the 73:01 pandemic crisis we had repeated crisis 73:03 in finance that's why we created a 73:05 financial crisis infrastructure at the 73:07 global level with the imf the world bank 73:10 we didn't have that in the pandemic 73:12 world we're now moving from pandemic to 73:14 endemic we have to start living with 73:16 viruses uh globally and we need to 73:19 create a kind of infrastructure there 73:20 the wto existed but it wasn't a global 73:23 coordinator and the responses were 73:25 fragmented national even regional and we 73:28 locked down systems we locked downtowns 73:30 that's not a good response and i think 73:32 we need to move to a better place in 73:34 response but i think the way we will do 73:36 business will be influenced by other 73:38 things than the pandemic the pandemic 73:40 has sort of shown us that we're 73:42 vulnerable on globalization because now 73:45 every crisis we had is global by 73:47 definition and there are 73:50 other global crisis one of the crisis 73:52 that is in the back is the sort of 73:53 environmental crisis 73:55 but i'm a stern believer that through 73:57 research development but also to 73:59 determined efforts we got on top of 74:01 these so the mega trends that we're 74:03 seeing that pious mentioned 74:04 digitalization uh the whole 74:06 sustainability discussion those will be 74:09 parts of doing business they're not 74:11 external events that influence business 74:13 they are part of how we do business and 74:15 it has to be put in our business models 74:17 and i think that's how we will change 74:19 but that's adaption to the circumstance 74:21 and i think that's what mankind is 74:23 really done all the time i don't think 74:26 we're in a new normal we're just coming 74:27 out of a really bad situation 74:31 and we'll learn our lessons from that 74:32 and be better in the future 74:33 actually i completely agree with you 74:34 that that the government played such a 74:36 critical role in crisis and and is so 74:38 necessary and we saw swift action back 74:40 in in spring of 2020 but the private 74:43 sector did too and we wouldn't be 74:45 sitting here together if we weren't all 74:47 vaccinated and businesses didn't rise to 74:49 the challenge of heroics to develop 74:52 vaccines we saw so many businesses over 74:54 the past 18 months looking for ways to 74:57 solve problems whether they be about 74:58 sustainability and esg or you know and 75:01 from my seat at the new york stock 75:02 exchange we're seeing companies coming 75:03 public all the time many of them 75:05 providing technologies to address issues 75:07 that they recognize whether 75:10 whether it be supporting small and 75:11 mid-sized businesses or you know i see 75:13 sarah fire out there next door 75:15 developing communities because community 75:16 is such such a uh an important part of 75:19 our recovery and so all of those things 75:22 that the private sector is doing are so 75:24 critical yet there's such an adversarial 75:26 relationship between the public sector 75:28 and the private sector 75:31 it's no contradiction because what you 75:32 see is in a situation where you are in 75:34 the crisis the government can play a 75:35 role by coordinating and by intervening 75:38 it's as important when you come out of 75:40 the crisis that the government retreats 75:42 that the government lets markets and 75:44 corporates take over again we've seen 75:46 that in the financial crisis there was a 75:48 re-regulation but now the 75:50 financial industry is actually much 75:52 stronger than we were before the crisis 75:54 so it's it's a give and take the 75:56 government plays a role in a crisis but 75:57 if they stay in crisis mode all the time 75:59 we're really moving down the wrong track 76:01 i agree with you i think one thing i 76:03 wanted to to bridge this conversation i 76:06 i think actually 76:07 it really depends what country and 76:09 culture you're in if 76:11 if you go to europe the governments have 76:12 a much more engaged role in 76:16 running the society 76:17 if you go to america for example where 76:20 it's become a very 76:22 the new political agenda is so 76:24 short-termist in america that the people 76:26 who are assuming a much bigger role in 76:28 the society are the very big 76:30 corporations and one of the things 76:32 that's interesting stacey is 76:34 who are the people that are having the 76:35 biggest impact on climate and during the 76:38 vaccine movement it's actually the 76:40 employees of the big companies 76:42 and the pension fund holders of the big 76:45 companies because every day the ceo now 76:47 in the last two or three years has 76:50 has to deal with activist groups 76:52 internally so these groups are having 76:55 big influence on issues of climate 76:58 brown to green big influence on vaccines 77:01 big influence on how the pandemic is 77:03 managed and big influence on lifestyle 77:06 so i think it varies and then you go to 77:08 asia 77:09 where you have a 77:10 very different dynamic between the 77:12 governments and the corporations so i i 77:14 think you can't really generalize the 77:16 thing we can't forget though and i want 77:18 to keep this 77:19 reintroducing the individual here we 77:22 have the government's 77:23 this whole climate debate 77:25 eric you have we have the governments 77:27 we have corporations you don't hear 77:28 enough about what the 77:30 average person who doesn't want to get 77:32 left behind where's that person going to 77:34 be in terms of getting retrained with 77:36 digital to all the things that that 77:38 you've been raised we have a question 77:40 here that pertains to what we've already 77:43 discussed 77:44 and i'm going to pose it to the panel 77:46 can we rely on companies to protect the 77:49 car 77:51 and good 77:52 through esg involuntary compliance or 77:54 do we need to ask government to use the 77:56 mandatory levers of taxes and regulation 78:00 to accomplish that psu we're about to 78:02 say something so i'm going to throw this 78:03 to you well i think the answer is yes 78:05 and yes 78:05 [Laughter] 78:07 i think without a doubt the 78:11 business agenda and company agenda is 78:13 morphing if if it wasn't already there 78:15 so the roundtable the business com this 78:18 round leaders roundtable in the u.s is 78:19 the case in point 78:21 but increasingly the understanding of 78:24 having to respond to multiple 78:25 stakeholders 78:26 is their own company the pension funds 78:28 are investors the ngos 78:31 marketplace or consumers are employees 78:33 they're expecting it to us you don't 78:34 have a choice um but by the way i also 78:36 come to this thing that if you think 78:38 long term then there's really not that 78:40 much conflict between your shareholder 78:42 commitments and other stakeholder 78:43 commitments i mean if you want to give a 78:45 decent return to your shareholder over 78:46 30 years you'd better be around for 30 78:49 years and the only way 78:51 you're around for 30 years is you need a 78:52 license from civil society so you've got 78:54 to earn that license but at the same 78:56 time 78:56 there are other things where it's quite 78:57 clear to me the public sector is the 78:59 only way you get to play a role you want 79:01 to go a global attacks on carbon i can 79:04 tell you no private sector company can 79:05 create a tax on carbon into the 79:06 government to do that you need 79:08 rules around measurements you 79:11 need rules around transition pathways if 79:13 you don't have an activist public sector 79:14 role this will never happen so as with 79:16 everything else we saw that in the 79:17 financial sector the gfc you can leave 79:19 the market forces completely to 79:21 themselves and then turns out that's 79:23 inadequate you need to have stronger you 79:24 know regulations supervision frameworks 79:27 so i think that balance is what you need 79:29 and that's why um 79:31 yes and yes i want to quickly go back to 79:33 this earlier point i think john 79:35 was saying this is right i think some of 79:36 the responses of do you need active 79:39 government only in a crisis or do you 79:41 need active government all the time is a 79:43 social political uh issue issue i'm 79:46 going to come back 79:47 the way we are it has been an activist 79:49 government and maybe 79:51 india talk about it in singapore the 79:52 small country 5 million people but the 79:54 fantastic example for what an activist 79:55 government can do through cycle not just 79:57 in crisis i do actually want to come 79:59 back to that point but 80:01 because we're eager to engage the 80:03 audience 80:04 i want to talk about this i referred to 80:07 the old paradigm i gave it a name 80:08 globalization before but 80:11 it had a supportive environment right of 80:13 subdued market volatility when we didn't 80:14 have a financial crisis on our hands 80:17 political stability and of course low 80:19 inflation 80:21 we have a poll and i'll bring it up so 80:23 that you can see it folks 80:25 this is the question are central banks 80:27 underestimating inflation answer a 80:31 there's too much government stimulus 80:33 spending excuse me monetary stimulus b 80:35 absolutely it's structural and we're 80:37 heading for stagflation c 80:40 no inflation is a temporary phenomenon 80:43 linked to supply shocks and worker 80:45 shortages so let's give the audience a 80:47 chance to answer that question 80:50 and as they do 80:52 panel 80:53 how would you have answered the question 80:54 stacy 80:56 i would go with c but temporary is a 80:59 subjective term would you prefer 81:00 transitory 81:01 well it's too hard to it's hard to say 81:03 exactly how long that'll last 81:06 i don't agree so 81:08 i think inflation is 81:11 getting to be a lot more a structure for 81:14 two or three um 81:15 i mean the two three anecdotal 81:17 observations one is a lot of inflation 81:19 is now wage inflation i'm seeing wages 81:21 go up everywhere um not just in the u.s 81:24 but in our part of the world i was 81:25 mentioning before i announced uh in 81:28 december that there'd be no wage 81:29 increases in my company this year that 81:32 uh pronouncement lasted 100 days i 81:34 started losing people we had to 81:36 most of my clients are doing that so 81:38 wage inflation is sticky it doesn't go 81:40 away 81:40 second the energy uh issues as we're 81:43 trying to 81:44 d or disinvest in the fossil fuel 81:46 economy and shifting i think the 81:49 structural shift is going to drive 81:51 energy price inflation and on the supply 81:53 chain all our clients i talked to at the 81:55 ports and the ships and so on i don't 81:57 think the supply chain is a one two 81:58 three four month issue it could be two 82:00 three four quarters and what happens is 82:02 when you start seeing sticker prices of 82:03 six and seven percent that starts 82:05 building inflation expectations and once 82:08 in inflation expectations get anchored 82:12 then you get into the spirals so i don't 82:13 think it's such a temporary phenomena 82:15 john how would you answer let's remember 82:17 inflation's at a 31 year high at least 82:19 the data that came out of the united 82:21 states it's clearly going to remain high 82:23 for the foreseeable future so there's 82:26 two issues there's one where is it going 82:28 to 82:29 where is it ultimately going to 82:31 remain when it does come into some 82:33 new new paradigm normalization i think 82:37 this global rgb rg in terms of supply 82:40 chains 82:41 people reestablishing their models 82:43 and the sort of 82:45 deglobalization is going to continue for 82:47 several years probably three to five 82:49 years so it's going to be a 82:51 period of time where inflation is going 82:53 to be very volatile so the issue isn't 82:54 inflation's going to remain high the 82:56 issue is where it's going to reset will 82:58 it reset around two percent which has 83:00 been the fed target or or higher than 83:02 that so that's what we should be 83:04 focusing on 83:05 axel 83:06 um combination of a and b except for b i 83:09 don't believe we had for 83:11 stagflation i think we'll see continue 83:13 to grow we're going up to our old 83:14 project growth trajectories but 83:17 in my view there is some structural 83:19 elements that are not just transitory or 83:21 temporary and i think we will have 83:24 uncomfortably high rates of inflation 83:26 for you know uh one two three years like 83:29 that uh then it really depends 83:31 on policy because if you assume as in a 83:34 that monetary policy and government 83:35 spending remains extremely expansionary 83:39 then i think we get more structural 83:40 problems that we run into but if they do 83:42 their job and normalize policies and 83:44 normalize spending coming out of the 83:46 crisis move to a more normal mode of 83:48 operation it can be 83:51 more short-lived but i think it really 83:53 depends on you know how these leavers 83:55 are moved in the next years 83:56 i'm not sure if we have the results of 83:58 our poll i'm sure they'll come up in a 83:59 moment and we'll be able to see how all 84:01 of you in this room here we go 84:04 do you agree with our panel 84:05 well our panel had mixed views and so do 84:07 you 84:08 there we go 84:10 um 84:12 again i'm going to make reference to the 84:13 old paradigm we could call it the old 84:14 global business model and 84:17 make an assertion that it was guided by 84:19 a singular goal profit 84:22 and there's something of a consensus 84:23 emerging today that the pursuit of 84:25 profit not only isn't enough 84:28 but also explains why the old business 84:31 model is variously destroying the planet 84:34 creating larger wealth gaps and not 84:36 delivering on the promise of shared 84:37 prosperity axel even if you don't agree 84:41 that there will be a new paradigm does 84:43 there need to be a new sense of purpose 84:46 for the global 84:48 business 84:49 i think global business needs 84:52 to really focus on not creating 84:53 externalities like pollution and global 84:56 warming and so clearly the cost of doing 84:58 business globally in 85:00 bringing that back to levels that are 85:02 sustainable uh will have 85:05 much increased cost levels so i'm with 85:07 pierce there will be a lot of green 85:09 inflation in a lot of things we do and 85:12 it will hit consumers and it will also 85:14 you know just a stark reminder we're 85:16 talking about distribution and whether 85:17 there's inequality in uh in our 85:20 societies it's not a new phenomenon 85:22 remember the communist party just had 85:24 its 100th anniversary in china marx marx 85:27 and lenin have been uh sort of ver a 85:29 hundred years ago transform 85:32 forming political uh views in europe uh 85:34 so look everything repeats it just comes 85:36 back in shorter or longer cycle so i'm 85:39 not that excited about it we'll get on 85:40 top of these problems so i don't think 85:43 we're in a new world we just see more 85:45 morphing of the old world into something 85:47 that looks different but it's the same 85:49 underlying thing i sort of think 85:52 we have to keep in mind this is i think 85:53 the 50th anniversary of uh milton 85:56 friedman's sort of definition of the 85:58 purpose of the corporation and 86:00 maximizing profit if you actually read 86:02 that article carefully it's purpose of 86:05 corporations to maximize profit common 86:08 comma all things considered which 86:11 gets into this logic that axel is 86:14 referring to in terms of what i call 86:15 stakeholder capitalism which means the 86:17 broader purview and i think we're now 86:19 living in an environment where people 86:22 are 86:23 and you see this now with the recent 86:25 chinese plenum and you also see this 86:27 with the big american corporations 86:29 they're more focused not 86:32 on maximizing profit but what i call 86:34 stable growth and stable growth doesn't 86:37 imply volatility and growth it implies 86:39 managed growth over a period of time 86:41 because they're looking at more 86:42 long-term r d and they've got a number 86:45 of objectives so i think you're seeing a 86:47 shift from 86:48 more volatile growth just more 86:52 projected stable growth in the developed 86:54 world but also and that's one of the 86:55 things the chinese are equally focused 86:57 on 86:59 there's a relevant question from the 87:00 audience here given that the given the 87:03 impressive job done by the private 87:05 sector you mentioned the stacey to 87:06 develop vaccines and record time given 87:09 that it required public investment 87:12 and facilitation do we also need an 87:14 operation warp speed 87:16 to rapidly develop new technologies to 87:18 address the climate crisis 87:20 well it didn't all require uh 87:22 a public investment i mean pfizer no 87:24 there was made that decision on 87:26 themselves right so i think that there 87:27 is that opportunity i do believe though 87:29 that there is a place for the government 87:32 to work together with the private sector 87:34 in a constructive way less adversarial 87:36 so we can that we can advance those 87:38 initiatives and 87:39 i think it's i think it's really 87:41 important and when we think about 87:42 oh i just lost my train of thought i'll 87:43 let you go 87:45 well let me pick up on that i think r d 87:47 is important and oftentimes uh you know 87:50 when the farm industry 87:52 the private sector has rnd you take the 87:54 internet a last part of that was done by 87:55 darpa and the defense administration and 87:58 then post you know poured out so there's 88:00 some areas where rnd as an example uh 88:02 the public sector can play critical or 88:04 in singapore we have an agency called a 88:06 star we have an r d budget of about 21 88:08 22 billion dollars for every five year 88:10 period and we along with participation 88:13 private sector figure where to put those 88:15 dollars to work and a substantial amount 88:17 of it is now going in things about you 88:18 know how do you think about nature based 88:19 solutions greening the economy creating 88:22 institutes of learning uh driving the 88:24 education agenda on some of these 88:25 subjects so i think the public sector 88:27 can play a role and they're not in 88:28 conflict you know it can be a commercial 88:30 opportunity and to be focused on profit 88:32 and to be focused on long-term growth 88:34 and stable growth and that's the 88:36 environment i believe we should be 88:38 fostering when i think about some of the 88:40 decisions we've made in our own business 88:42 just looking back through time in 2003 88:44 we're investing in environmental markets 88:46 uh with the climate exchange that we 88:48 acquired in 2010 because of we thought 88:50 the importance of the 88:52 that work and also the commercial 88:53 opportunities that we predicted we were 88:55 going to see from that same logic when 88:56 we announced our launch of natural asset 88:58 companies which provides an opportunity 89:00 for investors to invest in the natural 89:02 resources that we want to see become 89:05 nature positive so that we can have a 89:06 positive influence that's a commercial 89:08 opportunity it's also a successful 89:12 endeavor for all of us and mankind and i 89:15 i believe strongly we should be 89:16 fostering those those projects one of 89:18 the things eric i think we've got to be 89:20 following on what's what stacy has said 89:22 is 89:23 there's a 89:24 the whole esg area has been 89:27 managed with the pr point of view as 89:29 being very negative it's everything is 89:32 what i call negative sg negative 89:33 climates everything is you can't 89:35 obviously you've got to constrain coal 89:37 you've got to constrain carbon you've 89:38 got to constrain methane but let's be on 89:41 the 89:41 offensive side there's an extraordinary 89:44 number of industries the green 89:47 industries which are not given enough 89:49 attention they're not given enough 89:50 profile 89:52 any of them are not in america which is 89:53 probably why they're not given enough 89:54 profile many of them are in europe or in 89:56 asia and particularly in china 89:58 where there's a big growing business so 90:02 i think we need to figure out broader 90:04 policies to make sure that these 90:06 companies are given 90:07 stacey more profile more capital 90:10 more opportunities 90:12 to expand and really set aside given 90:15 incentives tax incentives or other 90:17 incentives more than what we have now in 90:19 order to grow because this is 90:21 this is going to take the industrial 90:23 revolution took a long time this is 90:25 going to take a long time and we've got 90:27 to transition this this isn't about 90:29 turning off 90:30 hydrocarbons 90:32 turning this on because this is still 90:34 very nascent we need to sort of but we 90:36 need to focus on the positive side of 90:39 where the investment is needs to be 90:41 actually part of the investment actually 90:43 is on what you said john it is the 90:44 transition yeah you got to get 90:46 industries to move from brown to light 90:48 brown light brown to light green and 90:50 light green to green it's not going to 90:51 go 90:52 one to the other so it's a trillion 90:54 dollar opportunity absolutely 90:56 you started your comments in this 90:58 conversation talking about 91:01 how we run the world 91:03 and um the need for activist governments 91:07 the rise of crypto 91:10 embodies a mistrust of 91:12 institutions especially monetary 91:14 institutions and governments and it 91:17 embodies the collective desire for 91:19 the decentralization 91:21 of financial power how in the context of 91:24 this conversation do you 91:26 think about 91:27 decentralization and tools like 91:30 cryptocurrency well 91:31 [Music] 91:33 that's the challenge i alluded to so you 91:34 know maybe not in this room but if you 91:36 talk to any young kid today you talk to 91:38 the technocrats you talk to the 91:40 evangelist 91:42 they will tell you that the future of 91:43 the world is self-sovereign 8 billion 91:45 people each of us can be sovereign we 91:47 have our own identity it is tokenized my 91:49 data is my own my interactions are 91:52 our own i will deal smart contracts i 91:54 will have my own currency so in web 2 91:56 2-0 the big risk was due 91:59 debate between the kingdom of facebook 92:00 versus the kingdom of sweden in web 3-0 92:03 it's not even that is it do you each 92:05 become and self-sovereign identity and 92:07 work with that and believe me there's 92:10 hundreds of millions of people who think 92:11 that 92:12 the future and which way i say it's a 92:14 massive paradigm shift we're good to 92:16 think no i don't believe that will 92:17 happen i think there is a lot vested in 92:19 cultural identities nation states what 92:21 we built you know the best failing 92:22 democracy so i don't think it will 92:24 happen but it will require us to think 92:26 very hard on how do we construct a 92:28 system where a large number of people 92:30 think i don't need a government i don't 92:31 need a currency i don't need a fair 92:33 currency i don't need a bank i don't 92:35 need a central bank i don't need a stock 92:36 exchange so how do you balance these two 92:38 and create the artifacts that you need 92:41 to run the world in the future is that 92:42 right axel i want you to jump in here 92:44 you've run institutions on the public 92:45 and the private side 92:47 what do you think 92:48 well look uh you asked about crypto uh 92:51 it's 92:52 the hybrid and people usually talk about 92:54 the hybrid instead of the details we 92:57 really like the technology behind that 92:59 blockchain technology distributed ledger 93:01 we do a lot of that trade finance as 93:03 banks with that the crypto part is where 93:06 i'm skeptical because the whole idea is 93:09 let's sort of move payments from banks 93:11 and 93:12 cash to something that is an anonymous 93:14 vehicle where both sides of the 93:16 transactions are not known that will not 93:17 survive the only part where you had that 93:20 in the old paradigm was banknotes 93:23 governments have phased out large 93:25 denomination banknotes because they 93:27 didn't want large transactions with no 93:30 fingerprint and no id on it 93:33 and crypto trying to do that in digital 93:34 is going to be jumped up on by 93:36 government as much in the traditional 93:38 world was as it will be in in the sort 93:41 of digital world so i love the 93:43 technology i think the idea of having 93:46 you know instantaneous transaction 93:48 between a large number of people 93:50 fantastic but 93:53 i think it needs to have a kyc know your 93:55 client an aml procedure around it 93:57 otherwise it will not survive 93:58 governments are working hard to avoid 94:01 illegal activities that could be done 94:03 through transaction in financial sphere 94:06 and governments will not tolerate this 94:07 to become really big the regulation will 94:09 definitely follow and governments are 94:10 definitely going to get involved 94:13 the revolution that drove crypto i think 94:15 gets to john's point about the 94:16 individuals saying hey the system 94:18 doesn't work for me you know they feel 94:19 left out and that that decentralization 94:22 if we don't address those underlying 94:23 themes of individuals not feeling part 94:26 of the framework that we've created 94:27 we're going to see that that conflict 94:30 continue 94:33 whether we define it as a new paradigm 94:35 or 94:36 an evolution of the old paradigm i think 94:38 you all have a much better sense of what 94:40 the world we're living in today looks 94:42 like and what more importantly what it's 94:44 going to look like in the days the weeks 94:46 the months and years ahead 94:47 please join me in thanking our panel 94:50 [Applause] 94:54 [Music] 95:07 [Music] 95:22 [Music] 95:34 [Music] 95:52 [Music] 95:57 heart 96:01 [Music] 96:09 [Music] 96:23 [Music] 96:30 so 96:37 [Music] 97:37 [Music] 98:28 [Music] 98:53 [Music] 99:14 [Music] 99:20 do 99:24 [Music] 99:43 [Music] 100:12 [Music] 101:02 [Music] 101:28 [Music] 101:41 [Music] 101:54 do 101:56 [Music] 102:22 [Music] 102:38 [Music] 102:48 [Music] 103:06 [Applause] 103:12 [Music] 103:42 so 103:44 [Music] 104:01 [Music] 104:09 [Music] 104:23 [Music] 104:35 [Music] 104:46 [Music] 105:02 [Music] 105:09 so 105:37 [Music] 105:59 [Music] 107:20 [Music] 107:29 so 108:19 [Music] 108:27 [Music] 108:40 [Music] 109:09 [Music] 109:13 foreign 109:19 [Music] 109:35 so 109:36 [Music] 109:56 [Music] 110:05 [Music] 110:33 [Music] 110:44 so 110:50 [Music] 111:08 [Music] 112:26 [Music] 115:11 [Music] 115:31 [Music] 115:55 [Music] 116:15 [Music] 116:34 so 116:47 [Music] 117:25 [Music] 117:36 [Music] 117:42 so 117:43 [Music] 117:56 [Music] 118:35 [Music] 119:13 [Music] 119:18 [Music] 119:28 [Music] 119:42 [Music] 119:54 [Music] 120:27 [Laughter] 120:33 so 120:41 [Laughter] 120:49 hmm 120:53 [Music] 121:02 [Music] 121:11 [Music] 121:21 um 121:23 [Music] 121:32 [Music] 121:38 [Music] 121:45 [Music] 122:04 [Music] 122:43 [Music] 122:51 [Music] 122:59 [Music] 123:23 so 123:29 [Music] 123:39 [Music] 123:46 [Music] 124:18 [Music] 124:59 [Music] 125:28 so 125:54 so 126:05 our program will begin in five minutes 126:08 please make your way to your seat 126:14 [Music] 126:19 [Music] 126:28 foreign 126:29 [Music] 127:28 [Music] 128:11 [Music] 128:37 [Music] 128:48 [Music] 129:01 [Music] 129:12 [Music] 129:23 please take your seats our program will 129:26 begin shortly 129:29 [Music] 129:52 [Applause] 129:54 [Music] 130:24 [Music] 130:31 [Music] 130:40 [Music] 130:54 [Music] 131:00 please welcome to the stage blimbag 131:02 editor-in-chief john michaelthwaite 131:05 [Music] 131:17 [Music] 131:19 hello 131:20 it's my great 131:22 pleasure to welcome hopefully on a 131:23 screen 131:25 in front of me here um henry kissinger 131:28 to ask him questions 131:29 on your behalf so hopefully henry is 131:31 going to appear 131:37 i can hear your voice henry 131:39 uh welcome to the new economy forum 131:41 thank you again for talking to us 131:43 i know how much you tried to get here 131:46 um 131:47 i was going to begin 131:49 by 131:50 asking you about the last physical 131:53 meeting 131:54 that we had at the newark 131:56 economy forum in 2019 131:59 you warned us about being in the 132:00 foothills of a new cold war with china 132:04 and then in the last virtual version of 132:07 this you told me 132:08 that you thought we had reached the high 132:10 mountain passes 132:12 that was back in the days of donald 132:14 trump 132:16 since then of of course we have had the 132:18 biden presidency and i think it'd be 132:20 fair to say that the first 132:22 period of the biden presidency was one 132:24 of 132:25 increased tensions with china 132:28 but over the past week 132:30 we have seen in a sense kind of come 132:32 down the mountain we had the 132:35 deal 132:37 to do with climate at cop and now we've 132:39 had this conversation between president 132:41 xi and president biden 132:42 which as wang shi-shan said earlier was 132:45 sort of there were common understandings 132:47 and i suppose my bait my first question 132:50 for you is 132:51 are we 132:52 beginning to come down the mountain or 132:54 do you still see this as a 132:56 as a relationship heading in the wrong 132:58 direction 133:00 i'd say 133:02 we're through the mountain paths 133:05 on 133:06 a precipice 133:08 from which you can look 133:10 in both directions 133:13 and now it depends 133:17 which direction is chosen 133:20 being on the edge of a precipice is 133:22 never normally a good start but all the 133:23 same on the on the necessary 133:26 conditions for us to start coming down 133:29 the mountain so to speak what do you 133:31 think 133:32 america needs to do 133:35 what does joe biden need to do to help 133:37 change this relationship if he wants to 133:39 do 133:42 that i think 133:46 both sides 133:48 have to 133:51 accept 133:53 adapt the view 133:55 that they can't 133:57 between 133:58 major 133:59 technical powers 134:02 of 134:04 comparable capacities 134:07 must not occur 134:10 for the preservation of humanity 134:13 and they therefore have to decide 134:18 that they will attempt 134:21 to 134:22 compose their differences 134:26 to a level in which coexistence 134:30 becomes 134:31 not only possible 134:33 but essential 134:38 i think the conversations this weekend 134:43 last few days 134:45 were a good 134:47 beginning 134:49 of this statement 134:51 of a possible mood 134:55 they now have to 134:57 be followed 134:58 by concrete discussions 135:01 that lead in the direction 135:04 both presidents 135:06 have affirmed they want to pursue 135:10 where do you see america in that just to 135:12 push you on that do you think that 135:14 america is committed 135:18 to a better relationship with china or 135:19 do you think it still sees it as a 135:21 strategic rival 135:22 what is your impression of the biden 135:24 administration 135:27 it is 135:28 inherent 135:30 it's indian and in the 135:33 technology and economic 135:37 economy of each side 135:39 that countries will consider 135:42 each other 135:43 as competitors 135:46 and public opinion in the united states 135:49 has 135:51 moved 135:53 into the direction of looking at china 135:58 as a rival 136:01 the 136:02 necessity 136:03 for both sides 136:05 is to see 136:08 whether from that posture 136:11 they can move towards 136:14 a pattern 136:17 in which 136:19 disputes 136:21 are attempting to be 136:23 mitigated 136:25 and in which they realize 136:28 that a victor 136:30 is not possible 136:32 without a risk of destroying humanity 136:38 on that particular thing are there 136:40 particular areas 136:43 that you would want to see america and 136:45 for that matter china concentrating on 136:47 we have seen 136:48 the progress on climate 136:50 but are there other areas other 136:52 opportunities that you can see 136:55 where there is room 136:57 for cooperation 137:00 well there has been 137:04 some progress made 137:06 on 137:07 climate change 137:10 and there is a whole range 137:15 of technically 137:17 dudes 137:18 in which cooperation 137:21 between the two sides 137:24 could bring 137:25 could bring 137:26 benefit 137:29 and 137:31 there is there are also 137:35 tensions in the world 137:38 in which cooperation between china and 137:40 the united states 137:42 say on nuclear proliferation 137:47 is of the 137:49 greatest 137:50 of the greatest importance 137:54 so 137:55 there are many topics 137:58 which it is at least important 138:02 to begin to 138:03 see 138:05 whether the views of the two sides 138:08 are sufficiently compatible to permit 138:10 cooperation 138:12 and if there's 138:14 if that is not possible 138:18 how to prevent them from 138:20 from moving 138:21 towards 138:22 conflict are you convinced on the about 138:26 the china's good intentions in this i 138:28 mean if you talk to a lot of people in 138:30 in the united states or indeed in the 138:33 west they will say that china is not 138:36 is bent on becoming a bigger power and 138:40 that america and other things are in its 138:41 way it wants to go its own way it is 138:43 merely biding its time 138:46 do you see the current 138:48 chinese regime which you know well 138:50 do you see that as one which does want 138:52 that degree of cooperation that you've 138:54 just spoken about 138:59 my task as a student of foreign policy 139:03 is not primarily to a psychoanalysis 139:06 the chinese 139:08 regime 139:11 i assume 139:13 that chinese leaders will work 139:16 towards 139:17 the maximum capability of their country 139:21 our task as americans and 139:24 non-chinese 139:26 is to 139:28 understand what we need to do 139:31 to make sure that there is 139:34 at least equivalence 139:36 and 139:37 in no case 139:39 subordination 139:41 if we understand that and if the chinese 139:44 understand their interests 139:48 as i believe they are 139:51 very capable of 139:53 then it should be possible to make 139:55 arrangements 139:58 by which the level of competition 140:01 is reduced to a point 140:03 that makes 140:05 even cooperative measures 140:07 possible 140:09 i'm assuming i'm 140:11 assuming 140:13 that china will operate at a high level 140:17 of its capacity 140:19 because that is the confusion tradition 140:22 and an engineering in chinese history 140:26 it is our obligation to work at an 140:28 equivalent level of capacity 140:32 and then 140:33 to 140:35 ask ourselves 140:38 whether the world will not be better off 140:41 if we 140:42 deal with the outstanding issues 140:46 like climate change 140:49 like 140:50 artificial intelligence 140:54 like 140:55 economic relationships 140:58 from the point of view that leads to 141:00 benefit for both sides 141:05 i would imagine that after 60 70 years 141:07 you might have graduated from a student 141:09 to a to at least an undergraduate in in 141:12 analyzing the chinese 141:13 administration but i wondered what 141:18 what role is there in this for europe 141:21 i mean it's interesting in this debate 141:23 here it's a word one barely he has 141:25 mentioned yet it is still the european 141:27 union is still the world's biggest 141:29 economy 141:30 what role does europe have in this 141:33 geopolitics 141:38 for my generation of american thinkers 141:41 the relationship with europe has been a 141:43 central feature 141:45 of american foreign policy 141:47 and the atlantic partnership is of 141:50 crucial importance 141:53 but the 141:54 problems of the atlantic partnership 141:56 that 141:58 it was formed 141:59 had to do 142:01 on the whole 142:02 with russian challenges 142:05 now the chinese challenges 142:09 are of a different cultural and 142:12 substantive nature 142:14 than the ones that were opposed by 142:19 the european 142:20 embargo 142:22 so 142:24 we cannot automatically 142:26 apply 142:27 all the legends of europe 142:29 to the 142:31 conditions of asia 142:33 but i would expect that in a general 142:36 sense 142:38 europe would look at america's 142:41 problems in other parts of the world 142:44 with sympathy 142:46 and with understanding 142:48 and that we in turn will understand that 142:51 on 142:52 some specific issues 142:55 the europeans because of 142:58 different geography 143:00 history and economy 143:02 might have special concerns 143:04 but the overall lines of policy 143:08 it should 143:09 be 143:10 that europe 143:12 and the united states co-op 143:15 cooperate 143:18 with allowances 143:20 for special conditions 143:22 that may exist 143:24 by country or region 143:27 can i ask you about one thing which i 143:28 know has obsessed you over the past 143:30 couple of years 143:32 artificial intelligence you have a book 143:34 on the age of ai and it is a 143:37 it 143:38 is a large part of the competition 143:41 between china and america in your book 143:43 you describe ai as the biggest change in 143:46 human thinking 143:48 since the enlightenment given given that 143:50 importance 143:51 how do you see the contest between us 143:54 and china 143:55 in terms of artificial intelligence 144:00 well 144:01 federal artificial intelligence 144:04 is a departure in human thinking 144:08 comparable to that which reduce the 144:10 enlightenment 144:12 so a whole new school of 144:15 intellectual evolution 144:18 is bound to develop 144:21 when the results 144:24 are achieved 144:26 by 144:28 achieving a result 144:30 without exactly knowing what the reason 144:33 for it is 144:35 but knowing that it is produced 144:38 by 144:39 an algorithmic understanding 144:42 of events that is a huge change in 144:46 human thinking 144:48 now 144:49 china has the same 144:52 challenge 144:54 how to adjust its thinking to this 144:58 reality 144:59 now if we deal with this entirely in 145:03 entirely competitive terms 145:05 and if we try to determine 145:07 who is superior and if we don't even 145:11 know how to define 145:14 a level what a level of superiority 145:18 is which is strategically youthful 145:22 we could be engaging in a rates which 145:25 as a result of accidents 145:28 leads to consequences 145:31 which we cannot foresee 145:33 so i would hope 145:36 that a way will be found 145:38 by which 145:40 technological discussions between the 145:42 two sides take place 145:44 which permit also an adjustment 145:47 of economic competition 145:50 neither side will accept 145:52 a 145:54 permanently inferior 145:56 understanding 145:59 but both sides have to understand 146:02 that the other will not concede a 146:04 permanently superior standing 146:07 so a dialogue that starts from these 146:09 realities 146:12 is essential 146:13 and there can be 146:15 no 146:16 winners 146:19 in an ai race 146:21 if both sides 146:23 do what they need to do 146:26 can i push you on one particular last 146:28 thing to do with that you mentioned 146:30 nuclear 146:32 conflict before you were involved 146:34 obviously in the talks with the soviet 146:37 union 146:38 about that in your book and in 146:40 conversation you have made the point 146:42 that cyber warfare is completely 146:44 different 146:45 because firstly it is harder for people 146:49 to say exactly what they have because 146:51 often that is giving away competitive 146:53 advantage 146:54 but also the bigger idea that we now 146:56 have computers which in order to fight 146:58 each other 146:59 should operate almost without human 147:01 control 147:03 is there a 147:04 a kind of organization or a governing 147:07 principle that america and china should 147:09 join in on this is there 147:11 a way in which you could have a modern 147:13 version of of disarmament 147:18 logic of cyber warfare 147:21 is 147:23 to operate at a speed 147:26 which is beyond human capacity 147:29 and therefore the temptation is 147:31 to build automatic responses 147:35 into weapon systems 147:37 but 147:39 if you deprive these issues 147:42 of any human element 147:45 then the danger 147:46 check the disaster 147:48 systems 147:49 might make 147:51 a judgment which you didn't foresee 147:54 and the danger of an automatic conflict 147:58 creation 148:00 have become very great 148:03 so how to build human judgment 148:05 into 148:06 cyber 148:08 confrontations 148:09 and how to solve the problem that these 148:13 types of weapons 148:15 are usually kept very secret within each 148:18 country 148:19 so to expose them to discussion with a 148:22 foreign country is not a matter that has 148:25 been 148:26 ever done 148:28 before 148:29 but without it 148:31 it will not be possible 148:33 to achieve meaningful restraints 148:36 but 148:37 peace 148:39 strain these attempts to achieve 148:41 restraints 148:42 must not become a way 148:44 of intelligence exploitation so much 148:48 as a way of 148:50 it or at all 148:51 but as a way of looking at a 148:55 novel 148:59 elemental change 149:01 in human cognition which is now 149:05 imposed on us 149:07 to deal with 149:09 and 149:10 a few hundred years ago 149:12 the german philosopher khan said 149:16 the road 149:16 predicted 149:19 that 149:20 peace would be achieved at some point in 149:23 human history 149:24 either by human insight 149:26 or by catastrophes of a magnitude that 149:30 will permit no other choice 149:32 we are exactly that point 149:35 in our 149:37 conduct 149:39 and the responsibility of our leaders 149:43 is 149:44 to try to fulfill it 149:46 and i must say i think the dialogue has 149:50 begun 149:51 on an appropriate level 149:54 appropriate to the challenge 149:59 because 150:00 thank you very much for talking to us um 150:02 you put us on a precipice and you ended 150:04 up with immanuel kant 150:05 but thank you very much um and all thank 150:07 you very much also for being our 150:09 co-chairman you are much missed 150:11 thank you for staying up um late to do 150:14 this 150:14 and we will see you next year 150:17 thank you 150:19 [Applause] 150:30 [Music] 151:05 [Music] 151:21 [Music] 151:29 [Music] 151:36 [Music] 151:54 [Music] 152:03 please welcome a moderator bloomberg 152:05 television anchor sharian and her 152:07 panelists vice president of the united 152:10 republic of tanzania his excellency dr 152:12 philip isdo and pango 152:14 ceo and founder of asa finance elizabeth 152:17 rozier 152:20 president and ceo of paypal dan shulman 152:23 and senior minister of the republic of 152:25 singapore taraman shem garathnam 152:42 good morning 152:44 thank you very much for joining us today 152:47 the title of this session is the 152:49 two-speed global recovery the dangers of 152:52 a widening rich poor gap of course 152:55 for the past few decades we have seen 152:57 the global economy 152:58 converge with lower income countries 153:01 catching up to wealthier ones thanks to 153:03 capital the advance of technology but it 153:06 seems the pandemic has reversed that 153:08 trend 153:09 so we are now seeing 153:11 the imf warn of a dangerous divergence 153:15 we are seeing of course this being 153:16 exacerbated by the 153:19 great vaccine divide more than 90 of 153:21 populations in lower income countries 153:23 are still unvaccinated 153:25 so this panel 153:27 will try to tackle those issues to see 153:30 where we're at in the state of the 153:32 global recovery and of course how we can 153:34 heal 153:36 really the biggest scars of the pandemic 153:39 and try to ensure an equitable recovery 153:42 we have an amazing lineup of guests 153:45 thank you very much for joining us today 153:47 first of all his excellency dr philip 153:49 israel pongo vice president 153:51 of the united republic of tanzania 153:54 elizabeth rosiello who's the ceo and 153:56 founder of as of finance 154:00 also dan shulman president and ceo of 154:01 paypal and of course 154:03 tarman ratnam senior minister and 154:06 chairman of the monetary authority of 154:08 singapore welcome to you all and thank 154:09 you very much for being here with us 154:12 let's start with the state of the global 154:14 recovery because as i mentioned we have 154:16 seen this rich and poor divide just 154:19 become more persistent during the 154:21 pandemic become more evident 154:24 let me start with you mr vice president 154:26 what are you seeing in terms of the 154:28 global economic recovery 154:30 and the inequalities that we're seeing 154:32 within nations 154:33 within tanzania around the world among 154:36 nations as well 154:41 well first 154:42 thank you for the opportunity to be here 154:46 this is a great chance for us 154:48 in sub-saharan africa 154:51 to share with the world 154:52 the experiences we are having 154:55 with the pandemic 155:00 well first what we see is a 155:03 very sluggish recovery 155:05 but very uneven 155:08 and 155:09 it is sluggish particularly for 155:13 countries like tanzania 155:16 where to start with we had very weak 155:20 public health systems 155:23 and therefore we really took a hard 155:25 knock 155:27 having to struggle with 155:30 very 155:31 nascent 155:34 health facilities 155:36 we had to 155:38 convert 155:40 even theaters at some point to be able 155:43 to accommodate 155:46 health patients 155:48 people 155:50 that succumbed to the pandemic 155:54 we had to 155:57 really 155:59 struggle with the related facilities 156:02 oxygen for example my own country has 156:05 only one 156:06 oxygen plant in the whole country of 60 156:09 million people 156:11 and therefore 156:12 uh you you you can guess the 156:15 consequences of having to to struggle 156:18 with all 156:20 150 156:21 000 patients 156:23 but also the unevenness 156:26 comes because 156:28 some families 156:30 lost their loved ones 156:31 and in that case when you lose 156:34 bred eners 156:36 you know the consequences 156:38 you 156:39 throw the entire family in 156:42 in poverty 156:44 i can cite an example where a family in 156:47 three days 156:48 lost the head of the household and the 156:51 mother of the household and both 156:52 professors 156:54 so we have really lost out 156:57 but apart from 157:00 the 157:00 health 157:01 sector effects 157:03 we have had 157:05 a serious knock on the economy 157:08 and the financial sector 157:11 and and here 157:13 tourism for example right as the borders 157:17 closed 157:18 we did 157:20 not receive tourists no airlines were 157:22 coming 157:25 so 157:26 tourist 157:27 operators shut down jobs were lost 157:32 and 157:34 same for trade 157:36 international trade collapsed 157:40 we could not 157:42 import the necessary raw materials 157:45 from our major trading partners china 157:47 india and the like really 157:49 this pandemic has been a very 157:52 tragic 157:54 one for everyone indeed very very tragic 157:57 and 158:00 i think really key here is that 158:04 we ask the advanced world 158:07 not to forget sub-saharan africa 158:10 because the challenge that we see is 158:12 that 158:14 while 158:15 the advanced economies 158:18 are recovering 158:20 relatively fast because they have the 158:22 vaccines we don't have the vaccines 158:26 the facilities that have been availed to 158:28 us 158:29 they're just too little 158:32 and 158:33 the pandemic is global 158:36 on that note let me ask minister tharman 158:40 about your thoughts on how much have 158:42 high income economies done so far faced 158:45 with this crisis and this divergence 158:48 that the vice president is talking about 158:50 well i think the vice the divergence and 158:53 that we know 158:55 in a very sharp sense 158:57 is the divergence in vaccine access 159:00 that's well known 159:01 but i think underpinning it is now a 159:04 gulf that's opened up 159:07 in trust 159:09 between the developing world and the 159:11 advanced world 159:13 a gulf and trust that's opening up even 159:16 within societies 159:20 some societies have come out okay in 159:22 fact there's some societies where trust 159:24 seems to be even stronger than it was 159:26 before kovid because people found a way 159:29 of collaborating with each other for the 159:31 common good 159:32 but the many other societies where 159:34 divisions are just 159:36 sharper than they used to be 159:38 and we see that 159:40 in the news every day 159:42 and trust in institutions 159:45 across the world is now lower than it 159:47 was two years ago it was already 159:48 weakening for some years 159:50 and it's much lower than it used to be 159:53 trust in some governments has held up 159:55 trust in many governments is now weaker 159:57 than it's ever been 159:58 and trust 160:00 and multilateralism 160:02 is at a all-time low 160:04 on all the issues to do with the common 160:06 good right trust and multilateralism or 160:09 even 160:10 pluralism the g20 and other groupings 160:14 uh trust is lower than it used to be 160:16 and we have to be concerned about that 160:18 and it means addressing it 160:20 just through narratives not just through 160:22 saying the right things we need concrete 160:25 collaborative ventures 160:27 whether it's on climate change 160:29 or 160:30 making sure that we can scale up 160:32 backseat production and distribution 160:35 or critically 160:37 looking beyond kovit 160:39 addressing the issues that existed 160:41 before cobit are now are now much more 160:43 accentuated we have a crisis in learning 160:46 the biggest divide in the world by the 160:48 way 160:49 by far the most profound and the most 160:51 dangerous divide we have is in learning 160:53 opportunities 160:57 let's talk a little bit about what's 160:58 going on the ground 161:00 because of course elizabeth you cater to 161:02 frontier markets what are you seeing 161:04 so i would say hope is not all lost it's 161:06 true there's been six million 161:08 vaccinations in nigeria which is a 161:10 population of 206 million um that's 161:14 clear but the entrepreneurial resilience 161:16 of the african continent where i've been 161:18 running this business 161:20 for eight years is unmatched and 161:22 unparalleled and it was during covid 161:24 that we saw the rise of the first 161:26 african unicorns and there are now seven 161:28 unicorns on the continent after a decade 161:30 of being almost zero and all of those 161:32 are in digital businesses and amongst my 161:35 peers on the continent we're used to 161:38 you know epidemics you know the election 161:40 violence we've closed our office our 161:42 offices in nairobi in lagos and dakar 10 161:45 12 times over the last eight years so we 161:47 already had a work from home strategy 161:50 our employees were already completely 161:51 set up you can give an allowance for 161:53 energy or be coming online it was a 161:56 seamless transition so it's almost a 161:58 bifurcation of the 162:00 economy in terms of the traditional 162:02 formal government economy and also the 162:03 informal online youth economy and the 162:06 resilience that we've seen and the 162:08 bounce back has been tremendous and even 162:10 in the the formal financial sector we 162:12 have seen you know record-breaking 162:13 returns for the nigerian banking sector 162:16 just announced and i think what we can 162:18 see is that you know 162:20 um there hasn't been a lot of 162:22 international investment outside of 162:23 international aid on the african 162:25 continent for the last you know few 162:28 years nothing matched with the venture 162:29 or private equity investment so what's 162:32 what what that has mean is that a lot of 162:33 bootstrap companies like aloysius here 162:36 another catalyst 162:38 working a lot of companies that have 162:40 been 10 years without funding that are 162:42 now you know perfectly positioned to 162:44 thrive in this kind of market dan what 162:46 are you seeing on the ground especially 162:47 when it comes to elizabeth talk about 162:49 some dynamism still on the ground 162:52 i think the uh 162:54 pandemic 162:56 exposed as thurman was saying trends 162:58 that have been happening for a long time 163:01 um 163:02 there are 163:03 at least 1.7 billion people throughout 163:06 the world who don't have access to 163:09 financial services i would say you could 163:11 double that that are underserved today a 163:14 hundred million 163:16 incremental people went into extreme 163:18 poverty 163:20 uh during the pandemic um 163:23 and it disproportionately 163:25 has affected um 163:28 women um it's affected uh 163:31 many vulnerable uh populations and so 163:35 this was going on before but the 163:37 pandemic really i think 163:41 cast a a spotlight on it that we cannot 163:43 ignore like we are all a part of our 163:46 communities businesses are a part of 163:48 their communities governments are part 163:51 of not just their own uh country but 163:54 but the rural community and so i think 163:57 the pandemics is going to force 164:00 us to think about how we think about the 164:03 world in general because i think when 164:04 you have such unrest that thurman was 164:07 mentioning his excellency was mentioning 164:10 that threatens the foundations of 164:14 political systems as well so i think 164:16 it's a it's a dangerous time and i i 164:19 think 164:21 uh we need to be sure that there's a 164:22 equal recovery as best we can just a 164:25 reminder for our audience if you have 164:27 any questions you have the nef app so 164:29 you can send us your questions and i'll 164:31 get them here and try to get them 164:33 for you but dan let me just go back to 164:36 your point about of course the pandemic 164:38 really exacerbating some of the 164:40 existing problems like minister thurman 164:42 was saying it's not that we didn't have 164:43 a divide we did but it just worsened the 164:45 situation what about some of the bright 164:47 spots because we also saw this 164:49 acceleration of digitization and perhaps 164:53 really the interconnectedness of the 164:55 world and what is people doing there 164:58 in order to have a recovery 165:01 that includes everyone 165:03 i think clearly the world leapfrogged 165:06 into 165:07 you know 165:08 call it the actually the beginning of 165:10 the digital era uh right now 165:13 um and everything we do the way we work 165:16 the way we live the way we uh get our 165:19 medicine 165:21 the way we uh educate ourselves went 165:23 into a digital realm uh the way we 165:25 finance the way we pay for things went 165:28 uh digital and i think um you know my 165:32 hope 165:33 for this um and the reason 165:36 and i get up every morning and i'm 165:38 excited about what we're trying to 165:41 do inside paypal and working with others 165:43 throughout the ecosystem is that i think 165:45 there is a solution 165:48 rooted in technology i mean everything 165:50 is moving to the mobile phone the mobile 165:52 phone is getting less and less expensive 165:54 you can get a good mobile phone now for 165:56 like 25 165:58 and so it is 166:01 that's connecting us together you have 166:02 all the power of a bank branch in the 166:05 palm of your hand right now and pesa 166:07 taught us that right away and and paypal 166:09 and m-pesa now are interoperable so that 166:12 you can work together and i think 166:14 you if you use the technology you can 166:17 make the managing and moving of money 166:21 faster less expensive and by doing that 166:24 hopefully drive some incremental 166:26 financial health which i think is again 166:29 the bedrock of so many things 166:31 at the same time though i have to wonder 166:33 if it's also going to sort of increase 166:35 the digital divide as well because of 166:37 course we know many 166:39 people in africa 166:41 are still not connected to the internet 166:43 what have you seen mr vice president 166:45 when it comes 166:46 to the pandemic and the acceleration of 166:50 digitization well um 166:54 i i think the gentleman who just spoke 166:57 has it right 166:59 from 167:01 tanzania and the rest of 167:03 the continent 167:05 we really see 167:06 that there is an opportunity 167:08 if the advanced world 167:10 could share with africa 167:13 the digital technologies 167:16 the right from screening 167:19 testing 167:21 and so on and this would 167:24 would make a huge difference for us who 167:26 are still struggling with 167:28 with such facilities but in addition to 167:31 that 167:31 we would need the multilateral 167:33 institutions 167:35 the imf the world bank 167:37 the regional banks 167:39 to come in 167:41 with even more 167:43 financial support 167:45 to really be able to enable sub-saharan 167:49 african countries to access 167:52 and buy these technologies by these 167:56 medicines to fight the pandemic 167:59 so there is an 168:01 opportunities not that 168:03 yes indeed there are challenges in terms 168:05 of 168:06 how fast we can absorb 168:08 digital technologies 168:10 but already africa has 168:13 shown wonders for example in applying 168:16 mobile technologies 168:19 to to reach our 168:21 people in the rural areas and i don't 168:23 see any problem at all that we can catch 168:25 up very easily and 168:27 i think it was said 168:28 the african people are innovative they 168:31 are resilient 168:32 they can match up fairly quickly as long 168:35 as 168:36 the digital technologies are shared with 168:38 us 168:39 elizabeth 168:41 in terms of digital technologies being 168:43 shared across africa what are you seeing 168:44 and what are perhaps some of the 168:46 prospects of new technologies like 168:48 blockchain that could actually 168:50 accelerate some of the progress there 168:52 well i mean honestly we joke about this 168:54 a lot of the company but the internet 168:56 access in kenya is better than in london 168:58 sometimes and you know on our 169:00 i have a house in lama which is in the 169:02 remote northern border of somalia in 169:04 kenya and you have 5g access thanks to 169:06 some mesh networks that were set up by a 169:08 local community so mesh networks have 169:10 been you know 10-year project across 169:13 kenya and we're seeing that all over 169:15 east africa etc similarly when you enter 169:17 the airport in senegal on the other side 169:19 of the continent 169:21 they've had fingerprint access digital 169:23 thermometer readings 169:25 ability to screen for for covid for some 169:27 time now so across the 55 markets you 169:29 see all sorts of levels of digitization 169:31 when we were the first company to 169:33 introduce cryptocurrencies on the 169:34 continent in 2013 which i guess was too 169:37 soon 169:39 we had some bumps along the road but now 169:41 it's quite exciting to see the uptake 169:43 and actually during the last two years 169:45 we've seen so many central banks move 169:47 forward with legislation and policies 169:50 that you know have taken eight years to 169:52 to move forward and in the last two 169:54 years have almost raced to the forefront 169:56 including the introduction of the inira 169:58 in nigeria just last month let's 170:01 talk a little bit about the regulatory 170:02 framework there minister thurman because 170:04 elizabeth what's just saying that 170:05 perhaps they introduced cryptocurrency a 170:07 little bit too soon what are the risks 170:09 of that and i know that you've been 170:11 looking at 170:12 crypto blockchain all from the lens of 170:14 fintech and the opportunities that it 170:16 presents 170:18 well i think we've got to always start 170:20 with the use case what's the objective 170:23 not not what what's the solution but 170:25 what's the objective so dan spoke about 170:27 financial inclusion 170:29 that's a that's a very large use case 170:31 because a large part of the developing 170:33 world still doesn't have financial 170:35 inclusion 170:36 uh even just internet excess right a 170:39 large part of the world rather 170:41 roughly 80 percent in the developing 170:43 world doesn't even have internet access 170:46 a large part 170:48 of 170:49 society even within the advanced world 170:52 doesn't even have internet access 170:55 um 170:55 i'll give you an example and it's really 170:58 worth shining a light on this 171:02 about 171:03 20 percent of sub-saharan africa and a 171:05 good part of the developing world has 171:07 internet access 80 don't 171:11 in detroit 171:12 milwaukee 171:14 baltimore 171:15 it's about 30 percent 171:17 of school growing children 171:19 that live in homes with internet like 171:21 yes 171:23 they're developing countries 171:25 so we've got to shine a light on the 171:26 basic problems and that defines our use 171:29 case 171:30 how do we improve internet access how do 171:33 we get more learning inclusion how do we 171:35 raise standards 171:37 how do we have financial inclusion 171:38 access to credit for smes 171:42 those are the big challenges of the 171:43 world 171:44 not so much the incremental changes in 171:46 costs for cross-border 171:49 uh 171:50 payments and and stuff that's all 171:52 interesting and useful 171:54 but those are small bore 171:56 issues 171:57 the really big challenges are staring at 172:00 us in the face 172:02 inclusion and sustainability are huge 172:05 challenges 172:07 the technologies exist for some of them 172:09 particularly for inclusion 172:11 that technologies are getting there for 172:13 sustainability still not fully bankable 172:16 or investable and we've got to 172:17 accelerate it through a lot more public 172:20 private 172:22 risk sharing it requires risk sharing 172:25 not just um 172:27 support for collaboration it requires 172:30 money to be put 172:32 risk capital to be put in place to share 172:34 risk 172:35 because otherwise the technologies 172:36 aren't going to be in place in time 172:38 for the next decade or next 15 years 172:41 sustainability 172:43 so that's what it takes and i think at 172:45 the end of the day 172:46 if kovit has 172:49 had a benefit 172:52 it is that it has illustrated 172:54 unfortunately in a tragic way but it is 172:56 illustrated that 172:59 collaboration 173:00 internationally 173:03 is far far less costly 173:05 than not collaborating 173:07 and preparing in advance for pandemics 173:11 and other crises 173:14 is going to be far far less costly 173:16 than not preparing 173:19 let's talk a little bit about the 173:21 collaboration and what you mentioned 173:22 about public and private partnerships 173:25 dan how do you use that in order to 173:27 ensure a safe ecosystem and especially 173:29 when it comes to perhaps upgrading the 173:32 broader financial 173:33 [Music] 173:36 system well i think um 173:38 [Music] 173:40 new company 173:43 is an island unto itself um 173:46 i think 173:48 i think the business world is slowly 173:50 but surely recognizing that 173:55 we have multiple stakeholders 173:58 those stakeholders include 174:02 our communities 174:04 include our employees 174:06 they include partnerships with 174:08 governments and regulators and customers 174:12 and 174:13 we need to 174:15 think about what is our purpose as a 174:17 company 174:19 and have 174:21 both profit and purpose work hand in 174:23 hand together um we can't just be about 174:26 making money we need to be about what is 174:28 the impact we can make in the world and 174:31 um and i think 174:33 um some companies are talking about that 174:35 and others are actually doing things 174:38 about that putting 174:39 their products 174:42 putting their 174:43 uh capital to work to look at larger 174:46 things than just the company itself and 174:49 i think that um 174:51 each of us have our own impact to make 174:53 uh we've got to do it in partnership 174:55 together there's no way that paypal can 174:58 make an impact without working with 175:00 people like his excellency and the 175:03 senior minister and others around the 175:05 world we have to work hand in hand 175:07 together regulations need to 175:09 permit uh responsible innovation uh to 175:13 happen 175:14 um but there are so many things that we 175:16 can do when we put our mind together for 175:18 instance like we do 175:20 these 175:22 working capital loans um these working 175:24 capital loans go to 175:26 the 175:27 70 of 175:29 uh states in the in the u.s where 10 or 175:32 more banks have closed branches which 175:34 are under-represented neighborhoods 175:36 and 175:37 70 of our loans go there and it's 175:40 because we use 175:42 technology we use different things and 175:44 traditional fico scores and that kind of 175:46 thing to really think about how can our 175:48 products help these underserved 175:51 communities that's part and parcel of 175:53 our mission and part and parcel of what 175:55 our values are as a company and i think 175:57 if all of us can lean into this 176:00 there are ways that 176:02 we can help in all parts of the world i 176:04 think the impact can be profound we just 176:07 can't think about it as like we can only 176:09 do this we have to think about it in its 176:10 totality that the impact 176:14 could be quite substantial if we do that 176:16 elizabeth 176:18 i couldn't agree more and one example is 176:20 that we process for 35 of the largest 176:23 remittance companies in the world and 176:25 remittances are essential to the growth 176:27 of the african continent and it's not 176:29 just the transaction costs most 176:31 remittance companies struggle with 176:33 accessing last mile with accessing float 176:36 pre-funding treasury these might seem 176:38 like you know esoteric ideas but it's 176:40 it's 176:42 actually opens up the flows of that 34 176:44 billion coming into the continent and 176:46 without fintechs without technology 176:48 companies to do the hard work of 176:50 building into those apis digitizing the 176:52 last mile connecting the mobile money 176:54 like empassa like mtn like 176:57 like airtel bartek into the banks and 176:59 the banks into them and to the cash 177:01 networks that's when we get that 177:03 seamless layer and then development 177:05 money private sector money can flow but 177:07 until we get that infrastructure built 177:09 it's really a bottleneck to a lot of 177:11 growth i worked for five years in 177:12 microfinance across the continents and i 177:15 saw this huge bottleneck into accessing 177:17 funds right and the second part is about 177:19 the use of the dollar so a lot of the 177:22 funds distributed across the african 177:24 continent are still distributed in u.s 177:26 dollars and then on lens and local 177:28 currency causing it a huge fx mismatch 177:30 which is something that needs to be 177:32 addressed i can just build on that 177:34 international remittances are one of the 177:36 most important inflows into certain 177:38 economies 177:39 and traditionally the 177:42 international remittance the fees for 177:44 that can be up to eight percent if you 177:47 go digital wallet to digital wallet you 177:50 can do that at 80 percent reduce cost 177:53 that when you look at the flows that 177:55 that go um in international minutes it's 177:58 a huge number getting money to those who 178:02 most need it mr vice president what's 178:04 your view on what's being said right now 178:06 and let me just also add to that a 178:08 question from our audience who's asking 178:11 the challenges have been highlighted but 178:13 what are the opportunities for emerging 178:15 economies and the reason that i'm 178:17 putting those two together is because at 178:18 the end of the day 178:21 you can 178:22 support developing economies but you 178:24 also need that private capital to flow 178:26 by itself and how do you make yourself 178:28 more 178:30 attractive well 178:32 first before that 178:36 i wanted to follow up again on the 178:38 technology issue 178:40 i think there are 178:42 simple things that we really need to 178:45 to work on 178:47 one of the issues which concern us 178:50 in tanzania 178:52 is the whole issue of having 178:54 a responsible social media 178:58 so for example 179:00 uh instead of 179:03 giving a balanced view on the vaccines 179:06 some of these social medias 179:08 are really talking about you know the 179:11 results 179:12 in making people important 179:16 you know they cause sudden death and 179:18 that kind of 179:20 and in the rural setting 179:22 even in urban areas it is very difficult 179:25 for ordinary people to basically say 179:28 this information on the social media is 179:31 incorrect 179:32 that kind of information 179:36 is the right one and therefore for 179:38 example the 179:40 the phobia we are seeing on 179:42 vaccines partly stems from what i think 179:45 is irresponsible social media and 179:49 both of us have a responsibility to make 179:52 sure that we are educating 179:55 our populations and giving them 179:58 the right 179:59 the right information to be able to 180:02 fight 180:04 this pandemic right 180:05 but also let me 180:07 add that 180:09 i think i would like to see 180:12 the developed world 180:15 supporting us 180:16 in what i see as positive the positive 180:19 side the opportunities 180:22 that i have arose from 180:24 uh from kovid coffee 19. 180:27 for example there are some industries 180:29 that are now coming up 180:31 to produce sanitizers and that kind of 180:35 and 180:35 i think it is important that we provide 180:38 incentives 180:39 to those industries 180:42 using fiscal policies internally but 180:46 also facilitating 180:48 trade 180:49 importation of various inputs that 180:52 go into into into such 180:55 into such industries but even more 180:58 important i think i would like to see 181:01 the 181:02 diverse world cooperating with us on r d 181:06 and in terms of 181:08 some could relocate 181:10 some of the 181:12 the industries manufacturing the 181:14 vaccines for example to the african 181:16 continent they can work with our local 181:19 researchers 181:20 to push 181:22 the knowledge of frontier so 181:25 i think there are ways in which 181:27 if we work together 181:29 we can defeat this pandemic 181:32 fairly uh fairly quickly as compared to 181:36 now that yes 181:38 we are innovative we are resilient 181:41 uh 181:42 depending on the circumstances we are in 181:44 for example in tanzania we decided not 181:46 to 181:47 go for a total lockdown 181:49 because for a population that really 181:51 depends on 181:52 you know a daily 181:54 subsistence way of life 181:57 if you close them you go for a total 181:59 lockdown it's almost imposing on 182:02 omega's chamber which we couldn't do 182:05 so yes there are 182:07 solutions that we can 182:09 push for it's not just the effects 182:12 we are perfectly capable of finding 182:15 solutions to 182:16 move ahead 182:18 minister thurman let me ask you a 182:20 longer-term question of course 182:22 of course when it comes to the broader 182:24 international financial system what can 182:26 we learn from this pandemic 182:28 when it comes to building a sustainable 182:30 uh environment where we do all see 182:33 opportunities for everyone 182:35 so first by the way i should say that i 182:36 agree entirely with what elizabeth and 182:38 dan were saying about remittances 182:40 so don't get me wrong 182:43 the cost of financial inclusion is a 182:44 serious issue and remittances are 182:47 a significant part of earnings for a 182:49 large part of the population in the 182:51 developing world so reducing the cost of 182:53 that is a very good thing 182:55 um on your broader question i would say 182:58 and this touches on what dr ambango just 183:00 said 183:03 to be 183:04 honest about it 183:06 if we try to tackle a pandemic after it 183:08 is started 183:11 it is very costly and it's going to take 183:13 a very long time 183:15 and that's what we've learned in covid 183:17 speed and scale is everything 183:20 and if you start only after 183:22 pentamic has broken out 183:25 even with the best efforts and the best 183:27 private enterprise and the most 183:29 remarkable speed of vaccine development 183:32 we're still in a situation where 183:34 20 months on 183:35 the majority of the world's population 183:37 hasn't had a jab in their arms so we 183:40 have to prepare beforehand and that's 183:44 a huge lesson coming out of corvit 19. 183:47 we must have ahead of time 183:49 manufacturing and distribution 183:51 capabilities 183:53 ahead of time 183:54 and there's no way the private sector or 183:56 the markets are going to deliver that 183:58 first they don't know exactly which 184:00 pathogen is going to be 184:01 the 184:03 source of the pandemic they don't know 184:04 which vaccine is going to succeed and 184:06 get through phase 3 trials so it 184:08 requires public private collaboration in 184:11 a much deeper sense 184:13 to be honest the us did it quite well 184:17 the us through bada and that whole 184:19 combination of government agencies did 184:21 it quite well 184:24 it was developed over the years 184:27 in the last year and a half 184:29 in an almost un-american way 184:31 government did well 184:33 in the us 184:35 even the us army was involved 184:37 in the logistics right 184:40 and we need to have a global bada 184:44 that's what we need 184:45 to develop ahead of time 184:48 with public money sharing risk 184:50 all the way from r d to developing the 184:52 manufacturing capability have ever warm 184:55 manufacturing facilities which you use 184:57 as best as you can in normal times 184:59 because you've got tv you've got malaria 185:01 you've got a whole 185:03 set of endemic diseases and you've got 185:05 to as best as you can use those 185:07 facilities to deal with endemic diseases 185:10 in order to then pivot 185:12 in a pandemic so 185:14 starting once a pandemic has broken out 185:16 you've got to try your very best 185:18 mobilize resources as best as you can 185:21 but even with those best efforts 185:24 it not only takes long but you allow 185:26 mutations to evolve and epidemic becomes 185:29 longer for everyone it's hugely costly 185:32 so just going back to the simple point 185:34 the cost of preparing in advance is 185:36 infinitesimal 185:38 compared to the cost of not preparing 185:40 that's the lesson of kovit and it 185:42 requires international collaboration and 185:44 the cost of collaboration is 185:45 infinitesimal compared to the cost of 185:47 not collaborating 185:49 on that note we'll leave the 185:51 conversation here 185:52 of course those lessons that we'll learn 185:55 through kovit and perhaps what we can do 185:56 next mr tharman thank you very much dan 185:59 elizabeth mr vice president it was great 186:02 having you at the 186:03 bloomberg economy forum thank you thank 186:05 you 186:17 [Music] 186:40 um 187:03 [Music] 187:08 [Music] 187:28 please welcome to the stage of moderator 187:30 john michael freight and 40th secretary 187:33 of commerce of the united states gina 187:35 raimondo 187:36 [Music] 187:46 thank you very much 40th secretary of 187:48 commerce makes it sort of adds a certain 187:50 amount to it um 187:52 we were going to discuss 187:54 two big things which have massive 187:56 interest everyone here 187:57 the first and both within your brief 188:01 come back to u.s competitiveness 188:03 generally in a bit but i thought we 188:05 might begin with trade 188:07 and you've been on a lightning tour 188:10 jet lag tour of asia with malaysia next 188:14 and you said in japan that you wanted to 188:16 form an economic framework that would be 188:19 even better than 188:20 cppt 188:24 or the comprehensive and progressive 188:25 agreement for trans-pacific partnership 188:27 and you said it'd be even more robust in 188:29 some ways than the traditional free 188:31 trade agreement and this is this 188:33 indo-pacific framework which america has 188:35 been talking about and i think many 188:37 of the business people here would say 188:39 look 188:40 we would rather have a trade pact that's 188:42 what we want 188:43 and i know that's difficult politically 188:45 but maybe you could spell out exactly 188:47 what this means and why it is better 188:49 yeah 188:50 so thank you it's good to be with you 188:52 and hello to everybody 188:54 i think that look i understand that you 188:56 know i began my week in tokyo i'm here 188:59 now i'll be heading off to malaysia i'm 189:02 meeting also 189:04 i'm here with my counterparts from new 189:06 zealand and australia and 189:08 we hear that we hear that you know cptpp 189:11 we want america in 189:14 here's what i would say um for various 189:17 reasons you know that is 189:20 not going to happen now 189:22 but the 189:24 president biden is crystal clear when he 189:26 says america is back he means back with 189:29 our allies and back in this region 189:32 so since he's been in office the vice 189:34 president has been in vietnam 189:36 secretary of defense has been here i am 189:38 here 189:39 ustr tai is here we are very 189:44 serious in re-engaging economically with 189:46 the indo-pacific 189:48 and when we talk about the topics it is 189:52 broader in some ways and a little bit 189:54 less restrained or constrained than a 189:56 traditional free trade agreement for 189:57 example 189:58 we can talk about partnerships around 190:00 the supply chain 190:02 specific 190:04 partnerships around working together to 190:06 make sure that we and our allies in the 190:08 region have a redundant and secure 190:10 supply chain you know australia has 190:13 critical minerals that we all need we 190:15 can talk 190:16 specifically and somewhat more flexibly 190:19 about partnerships 190:22 interoperability 190:25 which is critical to facilitate digital 190:27 trade 190:28 tech standards you know we were talking 190:30 backstage about artificial intelligence 190:32 you know you wouldn't see 190:33 setting tech standards in a traditional 190:35 free trade agreement but it is vital 190:37 who's going to write the rules of the 190:39 road for emerging technology we want to 190:41 write the rules of the road with 190:44 our like-minded allies in this region 190:46 semiconductors you know so i think that 190:50 um 190:51 decarbonization and green should we see 190:54 this as sort of the trade equivalent of 190:57 what people talked about at one time of 190:58 a kind of coalition of democracies this 191:00 is 191:01 america and its allies in asia getting 191:03 together in a in an economic way which 191:05 does not involve a specific trade pact 191:08 but which involves a series of kind of 191:10 complicated alliances building up to 191:12 that i think that's exactly that's that 191:14 is well said 191:16 and you know you can hire me if you want 191:18 to 191:18 i pro i'm sure i could not afford you 191:22 but 191:24 i think that is well said and you know 191:26 we i'm here in the region beginning the 191:27 discussions laying the groundwork 191:30 we're likely to launch you know a more 191:32 formal 191:33 process 191:35 in the beginning of next year which will 191:37 culminate in a proper economic framework 191:39 in the region 191:40 and does that mean an actual agreement 191:44 exactly exactly do you accept that part 191:46 of the cost of this is as you know china 191:49 and for that matter taiwan have both 191:51 applied to join the cptp 191:53 that that could be a consequence of it 191:55 that china becomes part of the trade 191:58 agreement that america left under donald 192:00 trump yeah 192:02 so i will 192:04 say this china is going to do what china 192:06 is going to do and whether or not the 192:09 the current members of cptpp allow china 192:12 to come in that will be as it will be 192:15 what i'm talking about is is is about 192:19 working with our allies in the region 192:22 allies we've had for decades in an 192:25 incredibly important and fast growing 192:27 region 192:28 you know in the indo-pacific 192:30 940 million people are entering the 192:33 middle class 192:34 in the next seven to ten years 192:36 you know it's 192:38 4.6 billion people some here in 192:40 singapore some of the best innovation 192:43 and 192:44 technology in the world so this isn't 192:47 about china this is about developing 192:50 robust commercial and economic 192:52 relationships with with our partners in 192:54 the indo-pacific where we have had 192:57 a robust relationship for a long time 192:58 but for the past few years i mean the 193:00 elephant in the room the reality is 193:03 america has been absent we have been 193:05 absent from the largely absent in the 193:08 past few years and when i am here in the 193:11 region 193:12 there seems to be a strong pull 193:15 to have us back and so we want to work 193:18 towards this agreement one last thing on 193:20 that i mean watching or listening to 193:23 wang shi-shan talking earlier it was 193:25 interesting to me how many times he 193:27 mentioned the word multilateral 193:28 multilateral multilateral 193:31 does it sort of worry at all that china 193:33 might be seen as 193:35 taking up the banner of multilateralism 193:36 whilst america is seen in this more a la 193:39 carte way 193:41 so again i 193:43 think that we just have to as i often 193:45 say we we have to kind of 193:48 run faster in america and play our game 193:50 in america we 193:52 we have our strategy 193:55 we are america is a fantastic and benign 193:59 and collaborative ally and partner 194:03 we have some of the best entrepreneurs 194:05 the deepest capital markets in the world 194:07 and a long history of working in this 194:08 region so we're going to do what we know 194:11 how to do and 194:13 you know china will do what it's going 194:15 to do 194:16 you mentioned international standards 194:18 and again just talking to henry 194:20 kissinger earlier that the all-important 194:22 issue 194:23 of artificial intelligence which also 194:25 goes into your brief on competitiveness 194:27 you know this is the industry of the 194:28 future 194:29 who is going to write the rules 194:31 of artificial intelligence and what do 194:33 you see as america's role in that so i 194:36 think this is an enormously important 194:38 topic 194:40 if you think about the internet 194:44 which of course was incredibly you know 194:46 powerful transformative disruptive it 194:48 primarily affected advertising in the 194:51 advertising market 194:53 and e-commerce you know retail 194:58 two relatively small pieces of our 195:01 economy 195:03 now you look at ai will change 195:07 fundamentally logistics biotechnology 195:12 health care 195:14 every single aspect of our economy 195:18 so i think that it's really impossible 195:21 to overestimate 195:23 the 195:25 you know what is coming in terms of 195:27 disruption transformation change and 195:29 progress 195:30 with respect to ai 195:33 which means first of all we have to get 195:36 it right in how we regulate 195:38 but secondly 195:40 we absolutely have to make sure 195:44 that like-minded partners who share 195:47 values around anti-discrimination 195:50 privacy 195:52 human rights 195:54 um 195:56 are together writing the rules of the 195:57 road so for example that's what i that's 195:59 part of what i'm talking about when i 196:01 sit down with malaysia when i sit 196:03 down with singapore i had a great 196:05 discussion yesterday with the tech 196:06 minister in singapore and exactly this 196:08 topic which is we have we share the same 196:11 values so we should be writing the rules 196:13 of the road we should be setting forth 196:15 the tech standards and governance models 196:18 for the appropriate 196:20 and safe use of ai are there 196:23 particular bits within that is there 196:25 particular sort of mini battlefields 196:27 within that yeah trying to set standards 196:29 in ai that you really want to focus on 196:32 so i would say this um 196:35 i think this has to be very use case 196:38 specific 196:40 so 196:40 ai as applied to 196:44 biotechnology will be different from ai 196:47 as applied to 196:48 logistics 196:52 and certainly there can be no room for 196:55 the use of ai 196:57 for you know surveillance or 197:00 um 197:01 [Music] 197:03 anything that pervades discrimination or 197:06 that kind of get you know gets into 197:08 ethical questions so it's it's an 197:10 enormously complex i think the trick the 197:14 trick is 197:15 use case specific industry specific 197:18 flexibility 197:20 right this is a this is an emerging 197:22 field we are in 197:24 the 197:24 i don't know a ton about sports so i 197:26 should be careful but you know like 197:27 second or third inning of ai so we have 197:30 to regulate and be be careful for the 197:32 dangers 197:33 but the potential is enormous so we have 197:36 to have some flexibility and sensible 197:38 regulations that we develop in 197:39 partnership with 197:41 industry and stakeholders and 197:44 our like-minded allies just that leads a 197:47 bit into the idea of american 197:48 competitiveness and i suppose 197:51 again many of the business people here 197:53 would would look at what's happening in 197:54 america 197:56 and they would see that there's been a 197:57 renewed focus and you've been at the 197:59 front of it in terms of sort of focusing 198:00 on industries focusing on different 198:04 um parts of the american economy to push 198:05 forward but they would also say look a 198:08 lot of biden's bills also involve things 198:10 like giving jobs to americans 198:13 unions all those things which is 198:15 precisely what goes down badly 198:18 in the rest of the world 198:20 is there an element that america first 198:23 harms america's attempts to help the 198:26 other side of your brief the trade brief 198:28 yeah 198:29 so like everything it's a balance you 198:32 know president biden is as you say 198:34 extremely focused on creating good 198:37 quality jobs in america 198:39 and good 198:40 emphasis on quality right decent pay 198:43 decent benefits decent working 198:44 conditions 198:45 having said that we are equally focused 198:49 on 198:51 kind of re-strengthening our 198:53 relationships with our allies 198:55 in in europe 198:56 uh in the indo-pacific and around the 198:58 world and i think that 199:01 you know we talk about onshore 199:04 but we're also talking about uh 199:06 friendshiring 199:08 it isn't realistic take semiconductors 199:10 it is a global complex supply chain 199:13 i'll be going to malaysia tomorrow 199:15 visiting advanced manufacturing 199:17 facilities and semiconductor facilities 199:20 that won't change 199:21 right and that is 199:24 that is that is okay that is a good 199:25 thing we don't think that everything can 199:27 be domestically produced 199:29 so we want to work with our allies and 199:32 and friend sure but yes of course we 199:35 also 199:36 want to enhance domestic supply of 199:39 uh semiconductor chips do you think do 199:42 you think the nature of the 199:43 debate about competitiveness has changed 199:46 partly because of what's happening with 199:47 china but also 199:49 partly because of covid it has made 199:51 countries think 199:53 countries that used to espouse what 199:55 might be broadly described as kind of 199:57 free market principles it's made them 199:59 think much harder about what industries 200:01 they need to keep at home yeah 200:04 absolutely absolutely you know 200:06 semiconductors is the best example 200:09 there's a global shortage of 200:10 semiconductors i was at a 200:12 ceo roundtable earlier of a variety of 200:15 different companies and they were all 200:18 saying 200:19 we can't get our hands on enough chips 200:21 so there's a you know 200:23 global demand is vastly outstrip global 200:26 supply in the united the united states 200:30 effectively and you know 200:32 invented or the semiconductor industry 200:34 was born in the us 200:36 and we in search of cheap labor overseas 200:39 we've watched that dwindle we now make 200:42 you know zero 200:44 percent of the world's most 200:45 sophisticated chips in america we only 200:47 make uh 12 or 13 percent of global 200:49 supply a couple decades ago we made 40 200:51 percent 200:52 so we absolutely need to increase 200:55 domestic supply 200:57 by the way not necessarily just by 200:58 american companies 201:00 you know like we have there are 201:02 companies in japan and 201:05 korea and taiwan which 201:08 which we hope will set up shop in 201:10 america and have domestic production 201:12 but at the same time 201:15 we do need to collaborate even in a 201:18 tighter way with our allies i mean these 201:21 global supply chains are by their name 201:24 which are global 201:25 um 201:26 and we have to shore up those 201:27 partnerships and it's about it's about 201:29 the supplies as well like critical 201:31 minerals minerals for batteries you know 201:34 minerals for semiconductors so it's 201:37 you know complex you can imagine 201:39 somebody though from an american 201:41 perspective saying look at you know 201:44 the the administration has come in 201:46 talking about the need to build a bigger 201:48 technology 201:49 industry but you're also the people who 201:51 are pushing anti-trust policy which i 201:53 know is not yours towards the big tech 201:55 giants 201:56 you see a lot of people here from from 201:58 from big banks and so on you look at 202:00 wall street it's another 202:02 massive area of 202:04 american competitive strength and yet 202:06 there's definitely some desire to reign 202:08 in wall street in the in the in the 202:09 biden administration 202:11 how do you sort of from somebody who's 202:13 trying to sell u.s competitiveness but 202:15 also bring the democratic party with you 202:17 how do you do that 202:19 i think it is really quite consistent 202:21 which is to say we're pro competition 202:23 [Music] 202:25 competition has what is what has 202:27 formed 202:29 the basis of such a successful 202:31 innovative and vibrant economy and so 202:36 whether it's big tech or any other you 202:38 know big company if they if 202:40 if there are anti-competitive 202:43 factors at play that hurts competition 202:46 that hurts startups that that snuffs out 202:49 innovation 202:51 the american capital markets are as you 202:53 say robust and liquid 202:56 and that that is a good thing right 202:59 america is still 203:01 the best place to start a business 203:04 you don't see a kind of contradiction 203:06 between i suppose the progressive wing 203:07 of the democratic party and your job to 203:09 the extent that there is i suppose 203:11 considerable 203:13 anger with capitalism and various sorts 203:15 of it on one part of the democratic 203:17 party and you on the other hand are 203:18 trying to boost 203:20 american business i would say this 203:23 it is 203:24 true 203:25 i am and president biden is you know 203:29 self-proclaimed capitalist and 203:30 self-proclaimed pro-business we want to 203:33 have policies which encourage innovation 203:36 and business growth and 203:38 and that is important having said that 203:41 look the excesses of capitalism 203:46 are on full display in america they have 203:47 led to a lack of competition 203:50 a concentration of wealth at the top 203:53 which is threatening 203:54 to our democracy and to capitalism 203:57 itself 203:59 so i don't i don't actually see 204:02 the tension i think 204:05 i actually think we cannot continue to 204:07 have a vibrant democracy or 204:10 entrepreneurial scene with this 204:12 concentration of power or wealth and so 204:15 i think it's healthy actually 204:18 i think you can be both you know i think 204:19 you can be both that you have to move 204:21 towards a more 204:23 inclusive 204:25 equal 204:28 form of capitalism 204:30 where businesses are successful but 204:32 workers are also successful you talked 204:34 about the excess of capitalism and one 204:36 very obvious area is the environment you 204:38 know we had copped last week 204:41 do you see that as america setting off 204:43 on a new 204:45 in a new way when it comes to to the 204:47 environment you heard mike earlier talk 204:48 about the necessity of getting rid of 204:50 coal and things like that is that part 204:52 of your vision is your how green is your 204:55 vision of american 204:57 the newly competitive america your your 205:00 building 205:01 they're very green totally green 205:03 [Music] 205:05 and in that regard a huge opportunities 205:08 for job creation for innovation and for 205:10 collaboration with our partners in in 205:13 the indo-pacific so 205:15 look the reality is we will not be able 205:18 to achieve 205:20 the goals that we all want to in need to 205:22 as it relates to deca 205:24 urbanization without more innovation 205:27 like scientists will tell you 205:29 25 of the goal will be achieved 205:33 by technology that is that doesn't exist 205:36 so that means you know 205:38 venture capital entrepreneurs innovation 205:41 research and development 205:43 bigger investments in research and 205:45 development um 205:47 are critical you know we just the 205:49 president just signed the trillion 205:50 dollar infrastructure package in that 205:52 package is the biggest climate 205:54 investment ever in the history of the 205:55 united states huge investments for 205:58 electric vehicle charging stations tax 206:00 incentives to innovate so 206:03 uh i 206:05 think there's a lot of innovation going 206:06 on in this region so i think very green 206:08 but i think if we do it right it will it 206:11 will create millions of jobs and the 206:14 challenge is that we have to bring 206:16 everybody along i mean the reality is if 206:18 you're in a coal affected community when 206:20 you hear climate change you get nervous 206:22 you hear i'm losing my job 206:25 so it's on us to have a just transition 206:27 and make sure that everybody's included 206:29 putting on you used to be a governor 206:30 famously but putting on that hat how 206:33 difficult is it to sell greenery on the 206:35 doorstep it can be difficult and i don't 206:38 think we i think we should be 206:40 real about the challenges it is 206:43 necessary and 206:45 we have to move forward 206:46 aggressively and and you know as 206:48 robustly as possible 206:50 but if you live in west virginia or 206:52 kentucky or ohio pennsylvania and it is 206:55 the only way you and your finger a third 206:58 or fourth or fifth generation coal 206:59 family 207:01 it can be difficult and i think that we 207:03 have to 207:03 [Music] 207:05 those concerns are valid you know i was 207:07 the governor of rhode island not a coal 207:09 community but a manufacturing community 207:12 and when i talked about tech 207:14 that made people a little nervous they 207:16 wanted old line manufacturing and so i 207:19 think if we will be successful in 207:21 bringing people along you have to be 207:23 real about the 207:24 challenge but also meet the needs you 207:26 know provide jobs ride new jobs write 207:28 job training 207:30 one last thing is that you know you as 207:31 you said you were a governor now you've 207:32 entered this horrific world of cabinets 207:35 and things where you're 207:36 part of it what's the biggest change in 207:38 that i mean you were always seen as one 207:40 of the great pragmatists of the 207:41 democratic party yeah once it actually 207:43 comes to 207:45 working in administration how different 207:46 is that 207:48 you know i'd like to think i still am a 207:49 great pragmatist a couple of weeks ago i 207:51 was able to resolve the 232 steel and 207:54 aluminum tariffs with the with the 207:56 europeans 207:58 i'm here you know practically looking to 208:01 kind of 208:04 make deals and and make things happen on 208:06 the supply chain issues i'm in the 208:08 middle talking to businesses so i'm 208:11 so far finding it to be 208:14 a place in this administration and the 208:16 president encourages this get things 208:18 done you know i'm not one for the 208:21 high-minded jargon like let's get 208:24 things done and uh so far i've been able 208:26 to find my spots to do that with 208:28 slightly more jet lag um 208:29 quite a bit more jet lag 208:31 secretary thank you very much for 208:33 talking to us thank you 208:38 [Applause] 208:49 please welcome to the stage andrew brown 208:54 [Music] 209:06 sorry um before you go uh thank you john 209:09 thank yo

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