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10.46 wang qiang

ives me great pleasure to attend the 10:31 2021 10:32 new economy forum virtually 10:36 on behalf of the chinese government 10:39 i wish to extend warm congratulations on 10:42 the opening of the 10:51 the international environment is 10:53 undergoing profound changes 10:55 and once in a century pandemic continues 10:57 to 10:58 spread the global economy has shown some 11:01 signs of recovery 11:04 this foundation is not yet solid as 11:06 evidenced by the acute problems of sharp 11:08 fluctuations 11:09 high fragility 11:11 and structural imbalances 11:28 in the face of these shifting 11:29 circumstances 11:31 the communist party of china and the 11:33 chinese government 11:34 have taken into account 11:36 both domestic and international 11:38 environments 11:39 followed a coordinated approach to 11:41 covered response 11:44 and social economic development 11:46 and made some progress embarrassing 11:50 on the domestic front we have grounded 11:52 our efforts in the new development stage 11:54 and applied the new development 11:56 philosophy 11:57 to foster a new development paradigm 12:00 and pursuing 12:01 high quality 12:03 development 12:05 following the general principles seeking 12:06 progress while 12:08 stability 12:09 we ensuring 12:10 on managing our own affairs well 12:12 in response to people's inspiration 12:15 for a better life 12:21 on the external front how much 12:27 [Music] 12:29 to share market opportunities with the 12:31 wider world 12:33 we explicitly observed true 12:36 multilateralism resolutely defended the 12:39 world's common interests 12:41 and push forward 12:45 high quality 12:46 belt and road corporation 12:51 international cooperation against coffee 12:52 19. 12:53 we have honored our commitments and lift 12:56 up to our responsibility 12:58 we can't be making major contributions 13:03 the global fight against the corona 13:05 virus 13:08 last week 13:10 the 19th cpc center committee 13:13 successfully convened a sixth plenary 13:15 session 13:17 the session comprehensively summarized 13:19 the major achievements 13:21 and historical 13:23 appearance of the cpc over the past 13:25 century 13:28 and a quarter pound the entire party 13:30 and all chinese people 13:59 isolation of the world 14:01 and nor can the world develop 14:04 without china 14:06 china will not waver 14:08 and it's resolved to deepen reform and 14:10 expand opening up 14:14 china's development 14:15 is a great cause 14:17 that is part of the progress 14:18 of the entire humanity 14:21 going forward 14:24 china will keep his arms wide open 14:29 investment and the growth opportunities 14:31 to the world 14:34 and contribute 14:36 to the building of an open world economy 14:40 and a community with a shared future 14:42 for mankind 14:58 there are also some new trends and 15:00 opportunities 15:04 we need to be more open-minded 15:07 think more creatively 15:09 and take more programmatic steps 15:13 to jointly create 15:14 a brighter future 15:16 for the world economy 15:20 we need to join hands to fight covenant 15:23 in 15:37 the international community should work 15:38 in concert 15:40 and follow a science-based attitude 15:44 to tackle and defeat the virus 15:47 we need to support each other's response 15:49 efforts 15:51 and strengthen cooperation in monitoring 15:53 tools therapeutic medicines 15:56 and research production 15:58 and mutual recognition of vaccines 16:02 in order to effectively forge 16:04 a synergy against the pandemic 16:08 we need to promote fair 16:10 and equitable distribution of vaccines 16:13 worldwide 16:14 and in particular 16:16 step up support for developing countries 16:20 to ensure 16:34 of science 16:37 firmly oppose 16:38 politicization of issues involving 16:40 vaccines and origins tracing 16:44 and jointly built a global community of 16:46 health 16:58 openness brings progress 17:00 whereas isolation leads to backwardness 17:05 we need to promote trade and investment 17:08 liberalization and facilitation 17:10 bring down trade and knowledge barriers 17:13 stay away from discriminatory and 17:16 exclusive rules and systems 17:20 and keep the functioning of supply 17:21 chains stable 17:24 and smooth 17:27 we need to jointly make the pi of 17:29 convergent interests bigger 17:32 enhance the complementarity and the 17:34 synergy of our national development 17:36 strategies 17:37 and regional and international 17:39 development agendas 17:57 philosophies and models resolve the 18:00 issue of unbalanced and insufficient 18:02 development 18:05 more equal development opportunities 18:08 and make the fruits of development 18:10 shared by all 18:14 need to join hands to promote a green 18:16 transition 18:17 and innovation-driven development 18:21 all countries should uphold the 18:22 principle 18:24 of common but differentiated 18:26 responsibilities 18:28 honestly implement the paris agreement 18:29 on climate change 18:32 and the outcomes of cop 15 of the 18:34 convention on biological diversity 18:40 we need to coordinate efforts in 18:41 economic growth 18:43 people 18:44 it's well-being energy conservation and 18:46 emission reduction 18:48 and pursue a green and low-carbon 18:51 transition of the economy in a holistic 18:54 way 18:57 we need to follow the general direction 18:59 of the ongoing scientific and 19:00 technological revolution and industrial 19:04 information and harness the power of 19:06 scientific and technological innovation 19:08 to drive the transformation and 19:10 upgrading of economic energy industrial 19:13 and consumption structures 19:16 we need to accelerate the conversion of 19:18 scientific and technological outcomes 19:21 into actual productivity 19:36 we need to join hands to improve the 19:38 global governance system 19:42 a fair just an 19:44 incredible global governance system is 19:46 an important safeguard for the steady 19:48 growth of the world economy over the 19:50 long run 19:54 we need to follow the principles of 19:56 extensive consultation join the 19:57 contribution and shared benefits 20:01 to multilateralism 20:11 [Music] 20:17 i support the law for rights and 20:19 interests 20:20 of the developing members of the 20:22 organization 20:25 we need to push forward the imf 20:27 governance reform 20:29 to increase 20:30 the representation and the voice of 20:32 developing countries 20:33 and emerging markets 20:39 we need to jointly discuss and formulate 20:42 global digital governance 20:44 rules why should improve the 20:46 multilateral institutions 20:48 for digital economy governance 20:51 established basic institutions and 20:52 normative standards on the property 20:54 rights transactions 20:56 cross-border transmission 20:58 and the security protection of data 21:00 resources 21:16 distinguished guests 21:18 the china u.s relationship is a matter 21:20 of high interest to many 21:22 yesterday 21:25 president xi jinping and president joe 21:27 biden had a virtual meeting they had an 21:30 extensive and in-depth exchange of views 21:33 on the bilateral relations and other 21:35 issues of mutual interest 21:38 and reached important common 21:39 understandings 21:42 china and the united states 21:44 are respectively the world's biggest 21:46 developing country and the biggest 21:48 developer country 21:50 whether they can handle the relationship 21:51 well 21:52 bears on the future of the 21:57 sides world add all the important common 21:59 understandings reached between the two 22:01 presidents 22:03 keep their focus on cooperation and 22:05 manage and control differences 22:08 so as to bring china u.s relations back 22:10 to the right 22:21 and stability 22:31 [Music] 22:34 please welcome to the stage bloomberg 22:36 television anchor and chief 22:38 international correspondent for 22:39 southeast asia has linda a mean 22:44 [Music] 22:54 morning everybody as you heard i'm 22:55 hustling down and we're going to start 22:57 our program today by taking stock of how 22:59 kevin 19 has appended business 23:02 assumptions 23:03 change 23:04 changed the way we work accelerated the 23:07 march of technology and we were to trade 23:09 now more importantly would like to look 23:11 ahead we're going to look to the future 23:14 out of this catastrophe a new economy is 23:17 being born how can we shape it in ways 23:19 that protect the planet and advance 23:22 prosperity for all 23:25 you know what i think i forgot to remove 23:27 my mask 23:30 have it's farming for months and it's 23:32 been almost two years now 23:35 before we get started 23:36 a few housekeeping notes first please 23:38 share your thoughts during today's 23:40 program on social media using the 23:42 hashtag if you haven't already 23:45 download it that hashtag is new economy 23:47 forum you can get that from the app uh 23:49 the app store 23:51 and um once you're logged in you'll be 23:53 able to participate in our conversations 23:55 on stage through the audience question 23:58 function on the app and the reason we're 24:00 doing this is because of course as you 24:02 saw we're having masks and it's quite 24:05 difficult to to to get you to answer 24:07 questions via a microphone send us your 24:09 questions they'll go to our moderators 24:11 you can put them to individual speakers 24:13 or the panelists now we'll also be doing 24:16 live audience falls in fact let's dive 24:18 straight into that do our first poll of 24:21 the day are you ready 24:26 what will be the pandemic's most 24:27 enduring impact on business would it be 24:30 remote work reduce business travel 24:34 redundant supply chains 24:36 a greener economy 24:39 do summon your questions your answers 24:41 we'll take a look at the results 24:42 slightly later during a 24:45 first panel but before we do that to 24:47 kick it off 24:48 we are some of our nikani farm community 24:50 members who could not be here today in 24:53 person with us to tell us about the one 24:56 thing they think must change coming out 24:59 of the pandemic 25:00 take a listen 25:09 less than two percent 25:11 of the population in low-income 25:12 countries are fully vaccinated at this 25:15 point and that is unacceptable we must 25:18 build our own production capacities 25:22 for vaccines 25:23 and not 25:25 rely on 25:27 those 25:29 facilities that exist in other countries 25:32 they 25:34 attended to their own people first 25:37 so we we were left with nothing next 25:39 time we can't afford to waste valuable 25:41 time creating a new mechanism and 25:43 raising 25:45 to mount a rapid and equitable global 25:47 response change must start here coverage 25:50 shows the paradox of the current global 25:52 order where trade flows supply chains 25:54 bounce back and yet a vital supply 25:57 vaccine 25:58 was instantly politicized and continues 26:01 to be in africa we had such a heavy 26:03 reliance on 26:05 water vaccines nearly 99 percent and we 26:08 need multinational agencies to support 26:10 those regional plans what we do now will 26:12 shape success for all future generations 26:14 we should do one important thing 26:16 rethink how we all approach hiring in 26:19 our companies because note 26:21 this is an unequal recovery i strongly 26:24 do 26:25 that businesses can be a force for drift 26:28 the time to act is now 26:32 [Music] 26:45 [Music] 26:58 [Music] 27:02 please welcome our moderator linda 27:07 ceo of mastercard michael mibach 27:10 founder and chairman of bharti 27:12 enterprises and executive chairman of 27:15 one web sunil abarthi mittal 27:18 and ceo of thetrip.com group jane sun 27:25 [Music] 27:31 now 27:32 the pandemic has had a profound impact 27:34 on the world 27:35 we've seen scientific breakthroughs 27:38 digital innovation that got accelerated 27:40 but we've also seen political failures 27:44 deep 27:45 invites rich versus poor east versus 27:48 west 27:49 vaccine inequity prompting a loss of 27:51 trust and governments as well as 27:53 institutions 27:55 meantime 27:56 businesses made a pivot to survive 27:59 some changes are 28:01 and others 28:02 are here to stay so what have we learned 28:04 from 28:05 this pandemic where do we go from here 28:08 how has covid shaped the world michael 28:13 farah says science saved today 28:16 vaccines 28:18 made the pandemic 28:19 manageable 28:21 in a matter of months 28:23 compared to the early 1900s 28:26 with the flu but yet five million people 28:28 have perished it'll be another six 28:31 months before three quarters of the 28:32 world gets vaccinated with the first jab 28:36 where did we fall short 28:40 i think there's no two ways about it we 28:42 fell short in multiple dimensions 28:46 they just you know shared the tragic 28:48 truth millions of lives were lost when 28:49 it's for sure true 28:51 livelihoods were lost as well so 28:54 you would think that 28:56 when you just consider the impact on 28:57 small business for example clearly the 28:59 hardest hit uh part of economy around 29:01 the world that we would have done a 29:02 better job over the years 29:05 considering that small business is the 29:07 biggest employer to keep them make them 29:08 more resilient and we didn't do that 29:12 the inequalities you talked about 29:14 east-west rich poor the digital has and 29:16 the digital have-nots 29:18 i think we have done a slightly better 29:20 job here because clearly 29:22 as we were all locked up at home the 29:24 world actually did work so 29:26 some homework was done but you can also 29:29 see that the digital divide for those 29:31 that have not been included for whom it 29:33 hasn't worked at all is opening further 29:35 so there's there's lots for us to do 29:37 i think 29:38 private sector plays a role to your 29:40 point about where failures happened i 29:42 think collaboration didn't happen to the 29:45 degree that it could have between 29:47 governments and private sector i see 29:49 much more of that as you think about 29:51 putting technology to good use 29:53 partnerships and good policy 29:55 on standards that ensure that you can 29:57 actually drive technology into 29:59 everybody's hand around the world so it 30:01 can be that force for good 30:03 i'm optimistic that we're going to do 30:04 better 30:05 then we actually took the learnings from 30:07 what happened in the last 18 months and 30:08 so we had all the time in the world to 30:09 prepare for a crisis like the pandemic 30:12 what are some of the key takeaways 30:15 well i have a slightly different take on 30:17 this i mean you can never prepare for 30:19 something like this 30:20 this was uh perhaps in our lifetime once 30:26 that you'll see this 30:27 simultaneous 30:29 almost everywhere in the world they 30:31 started to erupt 30:33 countries which are not very affluent 30:35 emerging india you know south asia 30:38 africa 30:39 generally take a you know 30:41 great deal of effort to deal with their 30:43 normal circumstances 30:46 we don't have the medical care that 30:47 required to deal with our people on in 30:49 normal times 30:50 i mean imagine uh you know catastrophe 30:53 like this a pandemic like this who could 30:55 have prepared themselves 30:57 the western world which is so advanced 30:59 was caught napping 31:01 so there was no question that countries 31:02 like india or bangladesh or africa or 31:06 still would have ever coped with this 31:08 yet let's celebrate the human effort 31:11 the ingenuity of you know mankind how we 31:14 did well 31:15 uh let's start with my own industry 31:17 telecommunications 31:19 people moved from urban centers to 31:21 countryside 31:22 not in tens of thousands 31:26 and millions but hundreds of millions 31:28 people just moved from the urban centers 31:30 people moved overnight from homes to uh 31:32 from offices to homes 31:34 the networks stayed the course 31:37 we shifted traffic overnight 31:39 from urban to rural centres from offices 31:41 to homes 31:42 i personally say this is to be 31:44 celebrated 31:46 because michael likely said work did not 31:48 stop one day we just continued medical 31:51 support emergency support work from home 31:53 regular business supply chains 31:56 everything worked well 31:58 251 million people maybe it's now 255 32:00 million people who have been 32:02 afflicted by this uh you know virus 32:06 five million have unfortunately died as 32:08 two percent as big every life must be 32:10 lost must be 32:12 moaned but the fact is the world has 32:14 come together remarkably against this 32:17 deadly virus so i would really say 32:19 we've done well and you can never ever 32:22 prepare for something like this but we 32:23 could have done better jane 32:26 let's bring you into this conversation i 32:27 mean sitting in china what are the 32:29 changes you're seeing today which you 32:31 didn't think possible 20 months ago 32:35 yes uh the pandemic has presented 32:38 tremendous challenge for the world 32:41 yet we have seen a great collaboration 32:44 in our industry 32:47 uh the technology made it possible for 32:49 us to stay connected with each other and 32:52 more more so 32:54 i see the people care about each other 32:57 no matter there is a border 32:59 among us 33:01 so at the beginning of the pandemic 33:03 china was the first country 33:06 which went into the panamics and we 33:08 received a tremendous support from 33:11 people all around the world from europe 33:13 italy india united states everywhere 33:16 once china was out and the other country 33:20 went into this pandemics and i saw 33:22 tremendous love and care from 33:26 china to the rest of the world and even 33:28 children in the city of shanghai raised 33:31 funds for the refugee kids in the middle 33:33 east to support them so i 33:36 saw a lot of challenges in the past two 33:38 years but it gives me a lot of hope that 33:42 through the collaboration through 33:44 technology 33:46 and through our human kindness we'll be 33:48 able to overcome a lot of challenges 33:51 michael cino talked earlier about how 33:53 basically we did not miss a beat life 33:55 went on work went on but there have been 33:57 changes 33:59 expectations of workers have changed 34:01 uh the great resignation is a thing not 34:04 just in the us which 34:06 for a recognition of about more than 34:08 four million people at their work the uk 34:10 is doing the same thing those in canada 34:12 are doing the same thing and the recent 34:14 survey here in singapore suggested that 34:16 of the people of all the people that 34:18 were surveyed 50 34:20 were re-looking at whether they wanted 34:22 to stay in their jobs or not so 34:24 expectations of workers 34:26 have changed sitting here as a ceo of a 34:28 company a huge company how do you see 34:30 the issue yes so the the great 34:31 resignation the great assessment or the 34:34 great reset i mean it's all a reality 34:36 but if you unpacked it 34:37 a bit i see it particularly pronounced 34:41 not so much in questions as in i need a 34:44 new source of energy 34:46 in my life and i'm rethinking it is 34:48 simply um 34:50 in industries that are in great demand 34:52 hospitality healthcare great stress 34:54 a lot of competition for best people in 34:56 our industry anybody who knows anything 34:58 in ai digital digital identity cyber 35:02 hot skills those are the people that are 35:04 in demand 35:06 and those are the people they're saying 35:08 i am feeling huge pressure every day in 35:10 what i do can i do better let me look 35:13 elsewhere even if i cannot do better 35:15 maybe i can be paid better so there's a 35:17 lot of competition going on and that's 35:19 been always the case in these industries 35:21 now pronounced because the pandemic put 35:23 a lot of pressure on the system 35:26 i think that's the fundamental trend um 35:29 when you peel the onion a bit more 35:31 there's an aspect about people are 35:34 looking for some source of additional 35:36 fulfillment 35:37 um they won't be connected to their 35:39 passions make a difference i'll give you 35:40 an example we last year we said you're 35:42 all very busy the zoom days are 35:46 blur 35:47 would you like to do something else 35:48 beyond and hands went up across the 35:50 company is i want to help on financial 35:52 inclusion i want to help on you know 35:54 helping small business etc so that does 35:57 play a role but it's fundamentally 35:59 competition for for hot skills that are 36:01 under great demand 36:02 what do you have to do as an employer 36:05 recognize 36:06 that it's a reality and say i have 36:09 targeted compensation plans i ensure 36:11 well-being is a thing now because we are 36:13 seeing a lot of people getting close to 36:14 burnout because of all of that demand um 36:17 so it is happening 36:19 um 36:20 i i think it's going to be something 36:22 that we will see for a period of time as 36:25 the 36:26 the recovery from covet is not going to 36:28 be near term so it's going to be with us 36:30 for a while and as the private sector we 36:32 have to manage through that carefully 36:33 but i think there's been good learnings 36:35 in the last 18 months what are you 36:37 seeing in india a billion people 36:38 millions joining the workforce every 36:40 single year 36:42 a great reassessment 36:44 yeah you know for india livelihoods 36:46 always were 36:47 perhaps a little more important 36:50 people need work people have to work we 36:54 still have to get wealthy as a nation 36:57 but there has been a fundamental shift 36:59 and you see it from very close quarters 37:01 people 37:02 you know are reassessing their options 37:07 uh my own viewers if you press everybody 37:08 to come back to the office and by the 37:09 way i'm in 37:11 michael bloomberg's camp which says we 37:12 must work as groups we must work as 37:15 teams we need to get back to the office 37:17 but by you to press everybody to come to 37:19 office 37:20 perhaps a very large section of them may 37:21 not want to come back 37:23 now is is this permanent 37:26 can they afford to stay away from our 37:28 work stream or just do jobs which can 37:30 allow them the flexibility it's hard to 37:32 predict 37:41 the problem is 37:43 you allow 37:52 bus or a car to do the one hour drive 37:54 back and forth 37:56 it just becomes an unfair situation do 37:58 you create a separate cardo for work 38:00 from home who have lower increments who 38:02 have slower career options 38:04 uh compared to 38:06 those people who make the sacrifice to 38:08 come to office this is the conundrum 38:09 each one of us as chief executives are 38:11 going to face 38:12 and large part i would say is also now 38:15 people are not used to getting dressed 38:16 up in the morning and get getting ready 38:18 to work 38:18 [Laughter] 38:19 you have to special occasion today yeah 38:22 you have to shake up the lethargy you 38:24 got to get them back and i can tell you 38:27 once you're back in the routine and i'm 38:29 checking with people almost daily in my 38:30 office 95 people are back my operating 38:34 units are still 50 38:36 but once people decide to come back they 38:38 enjoy it they like it so my view is 38:41 everything is assessed at a particular 38:43 point in time 38:44 eventually when the world comes 38:47 back to near normal you'll never be 38:48 normal i think you'll start to see 38:50 people coming back to work a lot more 38:52 michael i'll get back to you i know you 38:53 want to just make a comment on his 38:55 return to uh office work uh question the 38:58 um 39:00 the concentration is really in 39:02 white-collar workers who have the choice 39:04 the vast majority of people actually 39:05 don't even have a 39:07 choice so that's a it's a question 39:09 that's discussed with a minority 39:11 essentially 39:12 and here i think there's a risk of 39:14 unintended side consequences everything 39:16 you said people that can't make the 39:17 sacrifice or not but just think about 39:19 the following what happens once the mute 39:21 button is pressed what happens after the 39:23 meeting this is when there's impact of 39:25 careers that 39:27 are being shaped and imagine a world 39:28 that is let's say a lot of women making 39:30 the decision to work from home so they 39:32 can support their families better and 39:34 men do the other side you have a 39:36 perpetuation of 39:38 lack of gender diversity that those are 39:40 some of the intended side consequences 39:42 we really have to think through so i'm 39:43 with you 39:45 back together is better 39:47 i got it the right way and jane when you 39:49 take a look at china the young people 39:50 are pretty disillusioned uh they're 39:52 finding it difficult to find jobs 39:54 they're not getting married fertility 39:56 rate at 1.3 39:58 what's the sense you're getting there 40:00 yes china 40:03 control the virus very well so last year 40:07 in february we already went back to work 40:10 uh full force now we are taking the 40:13 opportunity to evaluate the new hybrid 40:16 model uh so we run a b testing and pilot 40:19 program which enable our 40:22 employees to have a choice whether work 40:25 in the office or 40:27 at home so far our testing have shown 40:30 that the job satisfaction has increased 40:33 significantly um and productivity is 40:36 adhered to 40:37 so we're very pleased with the result a 40:40 different group in different regions has 40:42 shown different favors in terms of where 40:45 one they want to work 40:47 generation z and millennials prefer to 40:50 work in office because they should they 40:53 have seen enjoy the social environment 40:55 in office 40:57 working mothers really enjoy have the 40:59 flexibility to have a hybrid model so we 41:03 are still keeping monitoring the process 41:05 to make sure 41:07 that our productivity and job 41:10 satisfaction are enhanced by offering 41:12 the alternatives to our employees before 41:15 we touch on technology i want to just 41:17 quickly touch on travel has it changed 41:20 you know because we had i think tata's 41:22 china sacrament saying that you know 41:24 he's not going to make that 41:26 [Music] 41:27 halfway around the world to do a 30 41:30 minute speech unless of course it is for 41:32 the new economy forum so now what's your 41:34 take on that 41:35 i think that perhaps has fundamentally 41:37 changed if i if i look at look back at 41:40 my long years in bingham business 41:43 i'm amazed how i was packing and 41:45 unpacking all the time 41:48 before you unpack the other stress to 41:49 pack again because you need to move the 41:51 second or third day to another country 41:52 another place 41:54 i can't imagine doing that ever again so 41:56 when i've been traveling of course 41:58 travel has been relatively less i go and 42:00 anchor myself if i'm going from delhi to 42:02 london i'm there for a long period of 42:03 time rather than two days which i used 42:06 to do 42:07 early on the rush back or go to africa 42:09 or go to the us that has changed so i 42:10 would say i would roll in more meetings 42:12 around that place 42:13 do partial virtual and partial physical 42:16 and then get back but who knows i mean 42:18 i'm talking about right now 42:20 you you know we may just be back to the 42:22 old usual self but i think business 42:25 travel will suffer 42:27 from the levels it was before pandemic 42:30 so we have the finger on the pulse it's 42:32 just what we do for a living at 42:33 mastercard so we know what people do do 42:35 they do what sunil does or do they do 42:37 something different and what is what is 42:39 shown as and when travel corridors 42:41 opened 42:42 people did travel it all started with 42:45 leisure travel everybody 42:47 but is that just pent up demand yeah it 42:49 is you know seeing a family friends 42:51 again that is pent up demand but 42:53 the first the first corridors opened 42:56 you're starting to see now at a point is 42:58 you would have seen everybody and people 43:00 still travel so leisure travel kicks in 43:02 as in you're not going home you're going 43:04 to the caribbean uh so we 43:07 can actually over the summer now 43:08 business travel you're starting to see 43:10 about a six month delay on business 43:12 travel coming back 43:14 you know in conversations that i have 43:16 with airlines and people who are 43:17 customers and partners is is all about 43:20 leisure travel but as business travel 43:22 comes back you start to see customer 43:24 facing travel as a reality in 43:27 internal travel not so much you wouldn't 43:29 do 43:30 get 300 people in a room somewhere just 43:32 to talk about your own company so i 43:34 think there's moderation in the end 43:36 we'll see business level not coming back 43:38 to the same level that it was 43:40 jane definitely has the pulse on the 43:42 travel industry jane what's your take i 43:44 mean the sense out there at least 43:47 according to surveys is that 50 of 43:49 business travel will suffer 43:55 sorry the translation somehow connects 43:57 to my line so um yeah what we have seen 44:01 is uh two trends uh the first of all uh 44:04 the trends can you hear me okay because 44:06 the translation line is 44:08 we can jane go ahead 44:11 okay great so if it is one-on-one kind 44:14 of conversation it's very easy to be 44:17 replaced by a zoom call so it becomes 44:20 more efficient without travel however to 44:23 attend a conference like this i think 44:25 you will be able to meet a lot of global 44:28 leaders the value is still there so in 44:30 china where the business travel 44:32 is a robot we have seen more than 30 44:36 percent year-over-year growth for our 44:38 business travelers so uh my feeling is 44:42 uh when the uh 44:44 pandemics is over uh there will 44:47 be a pent-up demand still addressing the 44:51 business travel secondly with the work 44:54 uh at home program a lot of people will 44:57 be able to stay on the beach to have a 44:59 business call so right now in china a 45:02 very popular new world is workation 45:08 work and vacation integrated so coming 45:11 up with new products to address this 45:14 kind of demand 45:15 we learn what's every day so this is 45:18 right up your alley let's talk 45:19 technology everything online it was 45:21 amazing that the internet didn't crash 45:24 right the thing is how do you build that 45:26 technology to ensure that when the next 45:28 pandemic happens when there is 45:31 a crisis we're able to overcome even 45:33 better what needs 45:35 to be looked into what needs to be 45:37 invested into 45:39 basically i would say hard 45:41 infrastructure you need to ensure that 45:42 the underlying connectivity network 45:45 is powerful 45:48 has enough capacity and a great speed 45:50 and latency to ensure that the traffic 45:52 that is surging across the globe is well 45:54 handled secondly we must remember 45:56 there's a large part of the globe which 45:58 is still not on internet 46:01 and our last calculation suggests we 46:02 need about half a trillion dollars 46:04 to cover the rest of the world who are 46:06 not connected 46:07 today largely in the under developed 46:09 countries but even places like the us 46:11 where fcc has just done an art off rural 46:13 development opportunity fund there are 46:16 parts of u.s which don't have internet 46:18 they're parts of canada which don't have 46:19 internet so i think that is a 46:22 simultaneous equation develop and create 46:24 more robust connectivity in areas we 46:26 already are 46:28 enhance your network capacities and 46:30 quality and go to the areas which are 46:32 dark 46:32 africa very large portions of you know 46:35 people are still not on internet so all 46:37 that requires a lot of work and that 46:39 needs five seven years we need to start 46:41 to work on it now 46:43 and the pandemic has pushed 46:46 i guess the 46:48 technology to a tipping point that has 46:50 transformed business forever it has it 46:53 has now it's starting with broadband 46:54 access 3.7 billion people don't have 46:57 access at all but if you didn't say if 46:59 you assume for a moment there is a 47:01 there is access 47:02 still we've seen a lot of progress and a 47:04 lot of push throughout the last 18 47:06 months of what 47:08 needs to happen imagine a brave new 47:10 digital world and there's all these new 47:11 people that are starting to use digital 47:13 solutions that haven't before because 47:14 they didn't have a choice they had to 47:16 like ordering groceries online they 47:18 start to do that 47:19 their question of digital trust is 47:21 essential because they're not familiar 47:23 and they don't know how to stay safe 47:24 same for a small business they might 47:26 have been brick and mortar and just 47:29 change their approach to have some 47:30 online delivery proposition and they get 47:32 hacked so question of digital trust 47:34 investment in cyber security cyber 47:36 resilience and cyber 47:38 oriented policies 47:40 um is absolutely critical and i think 47:42 the real game changer when it comes to 47:44 where else should be a priority an 47:46 investment for uh 47:48 to put technology to good use to give us 47:49 that productivity boost that we all want 47:51 is digital identity in a world of 47:54 you know in a world that is all digital 47:56 if you do not have a digital identity 47:57 you are a digital have not and that is a 47:59 fundamental problem that has not been 48:01 solved it's not been solved consistently 48:03 some countries made real progress 48:05 there's a lot of infrastructure 48:08 india technology stack some countries in 48:10 the nordics that progress that but it is 48:12 a gaping hole in this world and i think 48:14 there's uh that's what we should draw 48:16 our attention to 48:17 jane how are you looking at technology 48:20 absolutely it's enabler during this very 48:23 challenging time 56:50 [Music] 56:57 please welcome to the stage global 57:00 managing partner of mckenzie and company 57:02 bob 57:04 [Music] 57:10 stenfels hi everybody thank you it's um 57:14 it's my honor to uh to be a fire starter 57:17 for the next um uh breakout group new 57:20 paradigm for global businesses 57:22 and um as the last discussion session 57:25 highlighted 57:26 the importance of tech for our future um 57:29 is is absolutely central and i i fully 57:32 agree with that 57:33 um i would offer though that to meet the 57:36 collective challenges we're going to 57:37 need more than technology breakthroughs 57:40 we're going to need bold and urgent 57:41 leadership 57:42 so for this fire starter let me tee up 57:45 three messages three messages 57:48 the first message is the stakes are 57:50 incredibly high stakes are incredibly 57:52 high and as we look forward over the 57:55 course of this decade 57:56 we're at a crossroads and i could paint 57:59 two very different scenarios 58:01 for how this decade could play out 58:04 the first 58:05 a new age of prosperity 58:08 could grow 30 to 50 percent over this 58:11 decade with a better quality of life for 58:13 most people 58:14 a more sustainable future for our planet 58:17 true sustainable inclusive growth one 58:20 path 58:21 second path doesn't look so good it has 58:24 tepid economic recovery only 10 to 20 58:28 percent increase in gdp growth less 58:30 equitable distribution less sustainable 58:33 with worse outcomes for global health in 58:35 the environment 58:36 two radically different paths 58:39 and the stakes couldn't be higher let me 58:40 let me give a few specifics to this if 58:43 you consider climate 58:45 if we don't improve the net zero 58:48 commitments that we've all made 58:49 substantially improve we'll have one 58:52 billion people 58:53 living in lethal heat by twenty fifty 58:56 one billion people 58:58 if we think about inequality 59:00 seven of ten people today live in 59:03 societies with growing inequality 59:06 and we've seen the massive stress 59:08 that places on both public and private 59:11 institutions 59:13 and in terms of economic growth the 59:14 bookend scenarios have never been wider 59:16 than they are today as we forecast what 59:19 could be 59:20 so the stakes are high 59:22 now the second message however is we can 59:25 do this we can live into the first 59:26 scenario 59:29 at mckinsey we've done some modeling and 59:31 believe that we could have three to four 59:32 percent per annum uh gdp growth over 59:35 this decade from existing technologies 59:37 from existing technologies 59:40 similarly those same technologies if we 59:43 look at europe in particular could abate 59:46 85 percent 59:48 of the carbon today 85 percent in europe 59:51 from his existing technologies 59:53 and if you look at job creation 59:55 there is a scenario with substantial net 59:58 job growth over this decade 60:00 it requires investment in sectors from 60:02 infrastructure health care to energy 60:04 but done right job growth 60:07 can outstrip jobs dislocated through 60:09 technology two to one 60:11 two to one but it requires the right 60:13 focus on upskilling 60:16 and the goals of sustainability 60:18 inclusion and growth can also reinforce 60:20 each other and create a virtuous circle 60:23 let me let me give some specifics 60:26 more inclusive healthcare 60:28 could add half a point to global gdp 60:30 growth by 2040. 60:32 advancing women's economic potential in 60:34 the workforce could add 13 trillion to 60:36 global gdp growth 60:39 and growth rates for sustainable 60:40 products and markets outstrip 60:42 conventional ones 10 to 20 percent in 60:45 all categories 60:48 now i'm not naive driving all three 60:51 sustainability inclusion and growth 60:52 won't be easy and there's some real 60:54 tensions that need to be addressed 60:56 as technology is implemented at an ever 60:58 faster rate a hundred million people 61:00 will be need to reskilled this decade 61:03 100 million people 61:05 and energy transitions if we don't 61:07 focus will be regressive 61:10 they will be regressive if i take the us 61:12 alone 61:13 60 of low-income households face severe 61:16 energy burdens meaning they spend over 61:18 10 percent of total household income on 61:20 energy 61:21 just transitions have to be a crucial 61:23 component as we think about climate 61:25 transition 61:26 and i think we all know as 61:28 business leaders it's not easy 61:30 forty percent of our workforce right now 61:32 wants to change jobs in the next six 61:33 months the regulatory environment is 61:36 increasingly uncertain and we have 61:38 multiple stakeholder management to lean 61:40 forward if we want to be bolder all 61:42 these things come together 61:44 but i'd argue it is a time for us as 61:46 leaders to embrace long-term 61:49 capital and to be courageous which 61:50 brings me to my last my last message 61:53 we need to work together and we need to 61:55 move quickly 61:56 in reaching for sustainable inclusive 61:58 growth we have to work across the public 62:01 private divide as mike said in his 62:03 opening 62:04 it's the only way we'll find solutions 62:06 to things like standards for clients 62:10 for a mechanism that creates real 62:12 incentive to invest in human capital 62:14 and for a framework that allows us r d 62:16 investments to accelerate over this 62:18 decade to solve some of these toughest 62:20 problems 62:22 we also have to move quickly 62:24 what one thing that covet has shown is 62:26 that enterprise can move faster than 62:28 any of us expected which is good news 62:31 because these problems aren't going to 62:33 be the problems of the next generation 62:35 they're going to be the problems of our 62:36 leadership generation 62:38 so the question i have is can we lock in 62:40 this coveted speed to solve these 62:42 particular issues 62:44 so the choice is ours 62:46 we have a moment right 62:49 now to drive sustainable inclusive 62:51 growth 62:52 that won't be easy 62:54 but i'd argue we should accept nothing 62:56 less and as we go to this next panel the 62:58 question i'd ask each of you 63:00 is are we being bold enough as leaders 63:02 as we plot our course 63:04 thank you 63:05 [Applause] 63:10 ifp test test test ift test test test 63:16 [Music] 63:51 [Music] 64:06 [Music] 64:30 [Music] 64:36 [Music] 64:53 and his panelists president of the new 64:55 york stock exchange group stacey 64:57 cunningham ceo of dps group piers gupta 65:00 managing director and vice chairman of 65:02 pimco john stevzinski and chairman of 65:05 ubs group axel a 65:07 [Music] 65:15 well good morning everybody 65:17 i'm absolutely delighted to be here with 65:19 my lively and highly engaged panel and 65:22 to see you here this morning 65:24 uh before we begin i do want to remind 65:26 you 65:27 that you have the app 65:29 you've been using them already to answer 65:31 the panels 65:32 excuse me answer the polls but you can 65:34 also use them to send questions for the 65:37 panel and i'll be looking for your 65:38 questions as they come in and i'll try 65:40 to weave them into our conversation so 65:42 please 65:43 engage with me engage with the panel and 65:46 we'll make it collaborative 65:49 we have a great question to answer today 65:51 it is a question that every ceo every 65:54 cio and every boardroom around the world 65:57 should be asking itself 65:59 is there a new paradigm for global 66:02 business 66:04 we have a pretty good idea of what the 66:05 old paradigm was 66:07 we could call it globalization and that 66:09 paradigm had some highly identifiable 66:12 characteristics 66:14 free movement of capital for example 66:16 trade liberalization supply chain 66:18 expansion 66:19 cross-border interdependence and 66:21 multilateralism 66:23 also resource exploitation weight 66:26 stagnation to a degree 66:28 institutional authority 66:30 it sure feels to me and i think to 66:32 others here that that paradigm has 66:34 changed awfully fast i would point 66:38 to among other things 66:40 inflation 66:41 esg and crypto as evidence 66:44 that something is happening so i'd like 66:47 to begin 66:50 by asking 66:51 our panel 66:52 do you believe that there is 66:54 a new paradigm for global business if so 66:57 what are its dominant characteristics 67:00 are they different from the old ones and 67:02 if so how 67:03 and if there isn't 67:05 a new paradigm for global business 67:08 why not 67:09 stacy i'd like you to start the 67:10 conversation well there's definitely a 67:13 new paradigm for global business and i'm 67:14 not sure that any one of us up here can 67:16 tell you exactly what that's going to 67:17 look like just yet because there are so 67:19 many unknowns and there are so many 67:21 things happening at the same time and 67:23 their interaction is really what is 67:25 going to decide and determine what the 67:29 future of business looks like and so 67:31 many of the topics that eric mentioned 67:32 are related to that and and moving into 67:34 that but it's other things as well and 67:36 some of them are driven by 67:38 the consumer the consumer wanting a more 67:40 direct impact on their choices employees 67:43 wanting a more direct impact on how they 67:45 decide and what they want to do what 67:47 flexibility they want 67:50 the wages where they're working what 67:52 industries they're in i mean there's so 67:53 many things happening at the same time 67:55 with also looking at the globalization 67:58 of so many industries so it's definitely 67:59 going to change but i'm not smart enough 68:01 to tell you what it's going to look like 68:03 who is 68:04 well eric i i think we've also now 68:07 first of all i think we've seen the dog 68:10 but we haven't it's going to take us 68:12 quite a few years to be able to connect 68:13 the dots to see what the new paradigm 68:15 looks like 68:16 i do think though 68:18 following on tracy's comment about the 68:19 individual 68:21 i think one of the things this whole 68:22 debate about climate reaction 68:25 covet is really the first major 68:26 sustainability crisis 68:29 and it's game changing but i think that 68:31 also reintroduces this whole discussion 68:33 of the common good 68:35 and i think the expression of the common 68:37 good is something we're very conscious 68:39 of but it varies culturally and it's 68:42 something that 68:43 the americans talk about and it's 68:45 obviously something now the chinese very 68:46 much talked about in the context of 68:48 common 68:49 prosperity and the recent plenum so 68:52 i think we need to add to stacy's point 68:56 the individual and the sort of me 68:58 orientation particularly in very much in 69:00 the american 69:01 economy 69:02 to the notion of the common good and how 69:05 the new business model is going to 69:06 address the common good 69:10 if i can 69:11 come in so first of all i'm not in the 69:13 camp of the world is de-globalizing and 69:14 maybe we'll talk about that separately 69:17 but i have two messages first is i don't 69:19 think there's just a new paradigm for 69:21 global business i think there's a new 69:23 paradigm for how we run the world 69:25 and that's a lot more consequential than 69:27 how you run business 69:30 i think there are two big drivers which 69:32 we need to be really cognizant of one is 69:34 we're trying to wean away from a fossil 69:36 fuel carbon-led economy something we've 69:38 created over the last 150 years and very 69:41 rapidly swing to a completely new 69:43 economic construct there's trillions and 69:45 trillions of dollars of extant 69:47 infrastructure investment which needs to 69:49 be transitioned that's no small feat 69:52 the second is people haven't talked 69:54 about it so much wang jishan mentioned 69:56 it 69:56 i think the impact of technology in the 69:58 next decade is going to be completely 70:01 game changing 70:02 uh that includes a web 3 with 70:04 self-sovereign individuals and 70:06 self-sovereign identities it includes ai 70:10 with artificial general intelligence 70:11 increasingly allowing us to outsource 70:12 our brains and it includes a 5g world 70:15 where holographic and 3d etc make 70:17 virtual reality possible i think when 70:19 you couple this uh these two pedals i 70:22 think the green pedal and the technology 70:24 pedal one consequence of this is going 70:26 to be massive social 70:28 redistribution 70:30 so the poor people the poor countries 70:32 the lesser developed countries will face 70:35 the brunt of this transition more than 70:36 better people and that is going to 70:38 create a lot of social unrest so in that 70:40 context i think that's my second message 70:42 we have to rethink how we run the world 70:45 and that has two three big dimensions 70:46 one is role of governments 70:48 i think 70:50 you will increasingly get the world but 70:51 you have to have a lot more activist 70:52 role of the public sector that doesn't 70:54 necessarily mean big government but it 70:56 does mean more activist government 70:57 because some of the questions we're 70:59 going to deal with are questions of what 71:01 makes us human what makes us 71:02 philosophically uh the question of 71:04 philosophy i need people to help 71:06 shepherd a common state for society and 71:08 direction that's 71:10 activist government i think you need 71:11 government to catalyze investments you 71:13 need governmental de-risk investments 71:15 that's an activist government by the way 71:16 this is not the first time it's happened 71:18 you know it's happened in the 18th 71:19 century 71:20 in the fiscal sense it happened with 71:22 japan post-world war it happened with 71:24 darpa and nasa driving silicon valley in 71:27 the u.s and frankly i've seen it in 71:28 singapore since 71:30 was the best case point activist 71:31 government but i think you'll also need 71:33 a private sector which is a little bit 71:35 more attuned to what's popularly now 71:37 called stakeholder capitalism i.e a 71:39 common good agenda not just a 71:41 shareholder good agenda so i think you 71:42 need that to come together and i think 71:44 the ppp will be public private and 71:47 people because the capacity of the 71:49 individual to have a voice with social 71:52 media in the new world means the people 71:53 sector is going to be a relevant sector 71:55 one thing i think we need to take away 71:57 from this when i say manage the world 71:58 our current global multilateral 72:00 institutions are failing us we will have 72:02 to come together as one people and 72:04 therefore i can see again wang shishan a 72:06 completely new infrastructure and 72:08 architecture for 72:10 managing the digital world in the 72:11 digital economy at a global level the 72:12 united nations for digital but also i 72:15 see maybe dialing up within the current 72:17 infrastructure a new impetus for the 72:19 green economy and the green worlds i 72:20 think there's a lot of shits we need to 72:22 see in the coming decade 72:24 well if i just uh i think every time we 72:27 are in a crisis people say 72:30 this time it's different and every time 72:31 we come out of a crisis uh one of the 72:33 strongest features we find in mankind is 72:34 habit persistence we go back to our old 72:37 way so i'm much more on the page that 72:40 yes we are in a crisis crisis usually 72:42 are best managed by governments because 72:44 they have unlimited resources and can 72:46 act fast and they can actually enforce 72:48 things 72:50 so that's why we created states that's 72:52 why we created governments and 72:53 governments do their job in a crisis i 72:55 mean 72:56 say hank in the room governments did 72:58 their job in the financial crisis 73:00 governments will do their job in the 73:01 pandemic crisis we had repeated crisis 73:03 in finance that's why we created a 73:05 financial crisis infrastructure at the 73:07 global level with the imf the world bank 73:10 we didn't have that in the pandemic 73:12 world we're now moving from pandemic to 73:14 endemic we have to start living with 73:16 viruses uh globally and we need to 73:19 create a kind of infrastructure there 73:20 the wto existed but it wasn't a global 73:23 coordinator and the responses were 73:25 fragmented national even regional and we 73:28 locked down systems we locked downtowns 73:30 that's not a good response and i think 73:32 we need to move to a better place in 73:34 response but i think the way we will do 73:36 business will be influenced by other 73:38 things than the pandemic the pandemic 73:40 has sort of shown us that we're 73:42 vulnerable on globalization because now 73:45 every crisis we had is global by 73:47 definition and there are 73:50 other global crisis one of the crisis 73:52 that is in the back is the sort of 73:53 environmental crisis 73:55 but i'm a stern believer that through 73:57 research development but also to 73:59 determined efforts we got on top of 74:01 these so the mega trends that we're 74:03 seeing that pious mentioned 74:04 digitalization uh the whole 74:06 sustainability discussion those will be 74:09 parts of doing business they're not 74:11 external events that influence business 74:13 they are part of how we do business and 74:15 it has to be put in our business models 74:17 and i think that's how we will change 74:19 but that's adaption to the circumstance 74:21 and i think that's what mankind is 74:23 really done all the time i don't think 74:26 we're in a new normal we're just coming 74:27 out of a really bad situation 74:31 and we'll learn our lessons from that 74:32 and be better in the future 74:33 actually i completely agree with you 74:34 that that the government played such a 74:36 critical role in crisis and and is so 74:38 necessary and we saw swift action back 74:40 in in spring of 2020 but the private 74:43 sector did too and we wouldn't be 74:45 sitting here together if we weren't all 74:47 vaccinated and businesses didn't rise to 74:49 the challenge of heroics to develop 74:52 vaccines we saw so many businesses over 74:54 the past 18 months looking for ways to 74:57 solve problems whether they be about 74:58 sustainability and esg or you know and 75:01 from my seat at the new york stock 75:02 exchange we're seeing companies coming 75:03 public all the time many of them 75:05 providing technologies to address issues 75:07 that they recognize whether 75:10 whether it be supporting small and 75:11 mid-sized businesses or you know i see 75:13 sarah fire out there next door 75:15 developing communities because community 75:16 is such such a uh an important part of 75:19 our recovery and so all of those things 75:22 that the private sector is doing are so 75:24 critical yet there's such an adversarial 75:26 relationship between the public sector 75:28 and the private sector 75:31 it's no contradiction because what you 75:32 see is in a situation where you are in 75:34 the crisis the government can play a 75:35 role by coordinating and by intervening 75:38 it's as important when you come out of 75:40 the crisis that the government retreats 75:42 that the government lets markets and 75:44 corporates take over again we've seen 75:46 that in the financial crisis there was a 75:48 re-regulation but now the 75:50 financial industry is actually much 75:52 stronger than we were before the crisis 75:54 so it's it's a give and take the 75:56 government plays a role in a crisis but 75:57 if they stay in crisis mode all the time 75:59 we're really moving down the wrong track 76:01 i agree with you i think one thing i 76:03 wanted to to bridge this conversation i 76:06 i think actually 76:07 it really depends what country and 76:09 culture you're in if 76:11 if you go to europe the governments have 76:12 a much more engaged role in 76:16 running the society 76:17 if you go to america for example where 76:20 it's become a very 76:22 the new political agenda is so 76:24 short-termist in america that the people 76:26 who are assuming a much bigger role in 76:28 the society are the very big 76:30 corporations and one of the things 76:32 that's interesting stacey is 76:34 who are the people that are having the 76:35 biggest impact on climate and during the 76:38 vaccine movement it's actually the 76:40 employees of the big companies 76:42 and the pension fund holders of the big 76:45 companies because every day the ceo now 76:47 in the last two or three years has 76:50 has to deal with activist groups 76:52 internally so these groups are having 76:55 big influence on issues of climate 76:58 brown to green big influence on vaccines 77:01 big influence on how the pandemic is 77:03 managed and big influence on lifestyle 77:06 so i think it varies and then you go to 77:08 asia 77:09 where you have a 77:10 very different dynamic between the 77:12 governments and the corporations so i i 77:14 think you can't really generalize the 77:16 thing we can't forget though and i want 77:18 to keep this 77:19 reintroducing the individual here we 77:22 have the government's 77:23 this whole climate debate 77:25 eric you have we have the governments 77:27 we have corporations you don't hear 77:28 enough about what the 77:30 average person who doesn't want to get 77:32 left behind where's that person going to 77:34 be in terms of getting retrained with 77:36 digital to all the things that that 77:38 you've been raised we have a question 77:40 here that pertains to what we've already 77:43 discussed 77:44 and i'm going to pose it to the panel 77:46 can we rely on companies to protect the 77:49 car 77:51 and good 77:52 through esg involuntary compliance or 77:54 do we need to ask government to use the 77:56 mandatory levers of taxes and regulation 78:00 to accomplish that psu we're about to 78:02 say something so i'm going to throw this 78:03 to you well i think the answer is yes 78:05 and yes 78:05 [Laughter] 78:07 i think without a doubt the 78:11 business agenda and company agenda is 78:13 morphing if if it wasn't already there 78:15 so the roundtable the business com this 78:18 round leaders roundtable in the u.s is 78:19 the case in point 78:21 but increasingly the understanding of 78:24 having to respond to multiple 78:25 stakeholders 78:26 is their own company the pension funds 78:28 are investors the ngos 78:31 marketplace or consumers are employees 78:33 they're expecting it to us you don't 78:34 have a choice um but by the way i also 78:36 come to this thing that if you think 78:38 long term then there's really not that 78:40 much conflict between your shareholder 78:42 commitments and other stakeholder 78:43 commitments i mean if you want to give a 78:45 decent return to your shareholder over 78:46 30 years you'd better be around for 30 78:49 years and the only way 78:51 you're around for 30 years is you need a 78:52 license from civil society so you've got 78:54 to earn that license but at the same 78:56 time 78:56 there are other things where it's quite 78:57 clear to me the public sector is the 78:59 only way you get to play a role you want 79:01 to go a global attacks on carbon i can 79:04 tell you no private sector company can 79:05 create a tax on carbon into the 79:06 government to do that you need 79:08 rules around measurements you 79:11 need rules around transition pathways if 79:13 you don't have an activist public sector 79:14 role this will never happen so as with 79:16 everything else we saw that in the 79:17 financial sector the gfc you can leave 79:19 the market forces completely to 79:21 themselves and then turns out that's 79:23 inadequate you need to have stronger you 79:24 know regulations supervision frameworks 79:27 so i think that balance is what you need 79:29 and that's why um 79:31 yes and yes i want to quickly go back to 79:33 this earlier point i think john 79:35 was saying this is right i think some of 79:36 the responses of do you need active 79:39 government only in a crisis or do you 79:41 need active government all the time is a 79:43 social political uh issue issue i'm 79:46 going to come back 79:47 the way we are it has been an activist 79:49 government and maybe 79:51 india talk about it in singapore the 79:52 small country 5 million people but the 79:54 fantastic example for what an activist 79:55 government can do through cycle not just 79:57 in crisis i do actually want to come 79:59 back to that point but 80:01 because we're eager to engage the 80:03 audience 80:04 i want to talk about this i referred to 80:07 the old paradigm i gave it a name 80:08 globalization before but 80:11 it had a supportive environment right of 80:13 subdued market volatility when we didn't 80:14 have a financial crisis on our hands 80:17 political stability and of course low 80:19 inflation 80:21 we have a poll and i'll bring it up so 80:23 that you can see it folks 80:25 this is the question are central banks 80:27 underestimating inflation answer a 80:31 there's too much government stimulus 80:33 spending excuse me monetary stimulus b 80:35 absolutely it's structural and we're 80:37 heading for stagflation c 80:40 no inflation is a temporary phenomenon 80:43 linked to supply shocks and worker 80:45 shortages so let's give the audience a 80:47 chance to answer that question 80:50 and as they do 80:52 panel 80:53 how would you have answered the question 80:54 stacy 80:56 i would go with c but temporary is a 80:59 subjective term would you prefer 81:00 transitory 81:01 well it's too hard to it's hard to say 81:03 exactly how long that'll last 81:06 i don't agree so 81:08 i think inflation is 81:11 getting to be a lot more a structure for 81:14 two or three um 81:15 i mean the two three anecdotal 81:17 observations one is a lot of inflation 81:19 is now wage inflation i'm seeing wages 81:21 go up everywhere um not just in the u.s 81:24 but in our part of the world i was 81:25 mentioning before i announced uh in 81:28 december that there'd be no wage 81:29 increases in my company this year that 81:32 uh pronouncement lasted 100 days i 81:34 started losing people we had to 81:36 most of my clients are doing that so 81:38 wage inflation is sticky it doesn't go 81:40 away 81:40 second the energy uh issues as we're 81:43 trying to 81:44 d or disinvest in the fossil fuel 81:46 economy and shifting i think the 81:49 structural shift is going to drive 81:51 energy price inflation and on the supply 81:53 chain all our clients i talked to at the 81:55 ports and the ships and so on i don't 81:57 think the supply chain is a one two 81:58 three four month issue it could be two 82:00 three four quarters and what happens is 82:02 when you start seeing sticker prices of 82:03 six and seven percent that starts 82:05 building inflation expectations and once 82:08 in inflation expectations get anchored 82:12 then you get into the spirals so i don't 82:13 think it's such a temporary phenomena 82:15 john how would you answer let's remember 82:17 inflation's at a 31 year high at least 82:19 the data that came out of the united 82:21 states it's clearly going to remain high 82:23 for the foreseeable future so there's 82:26 two issues there's one where is it going 82:28 to 82:29 where is it ultimately going to 82:31 remain when it does come into some 82:33 new new paradigm normalization i think 82:37 this global rgb rg in terms of supply 82:40 chains 82:41 people reestablishing their models 82:43 and the sort of 82:45 deglobalization is going to continue for 82:47 several years probably three to five 82:49 years so it's going to be a 82:51 period of time where inflation is going 82:53 to be very volatile so the issue isn't 82:54 inflation's going to remain high the 82:56 issue is where it's going to reset will 82:58 it reset around two percent which has 83:00 been the fed target or or higher than 83:02 that so that's what we should be 83:04 focusing on 83:05 axel 83:06 um combination of a and b except for b i 83:09 don't believe we had for 83:11 stagflation i think we'll see continue 83:13 to grow we're going up to our old 83:14 project growth trajectories but 83:17 in my view there is some structural 83:19 elements that are not just transitory or 83:21 temporary and i think we will have 83:24 uncomfortably high rates of inflation 83:26 for you know uh one two three years like 83:29 that uh then it really depends 83:31 on policy because if you assume as in a 83:34 that monetary policy and government 83:35 spending remains extremely expansionary 83:39 then i think we get more structural 83:40 problems that we run into but if they do 83:42 their job and normalize policies and 83:44 normalize spending coming out of the 83:46 crisis move to a more normal mode of 83:48 operation it can be 83:51 more short-lived but i think it really 83:53 depends on you know how these leavers 83:55 are moved in the next years 83:56 i'm not sure if we have the results of 83:58 our poll i'm sure they'll come up in a 83:59 moment and we'll be able to see how all 84:01 of you in this room here we go 84:04 do you agree with our panel 84:05 well our panel had mixed views and so do 84:07 you 84:08 there we go 84:10 um 84:12 again i'm going to make reference to the 84:13 old paradigm we could call it the old 84:14 global business model and 84:17 make an assertion that it was guided by 84:19 a singular goal profit 84:22 and there's something of a consensus 84:23 emerging today that the pursuit of 84:25 profit not only isn't enough 84:28 but also explains why the old business 84:31 model is variously destroying the planet 84:34 creating larger wealth gaps and not 84:36 delivering on the promise of shared 84:37 prosperity axel even if you don't agree 84:41 that there will be a new paradigm does 84:43 there need to be a new sense of purpose 84:46 for the global 84:48 business 84:49 i think global business needs 84:52 to really focus on not creating 84:53 externalities like pollution and global 84:56 warming and so clearly the cost of doing 84:58 business globally in 85:00 bringing that back to levels that are 85:02 sustainable uh will have 85:05 much increased cost levels so i'm with 85:07 pierce there will be a lot of green 85:09 inflation in a lot of things we do and 85:12 it will hit consumers and it will also 85:14 you know just a stark reminder we're 85:16 talking about distribution and whether 85:17 there's inequality in uh in our 85:20 societies it's not a new phenomenon 85:22 remember the communist party just had 85:24 its 100th anniversary in china marx marx 85:27 and lenin have been uh sort of ver a 85:29 hundred years ago transform 85:32 forming political uh views in europe uh 85:34 so look everything repeats it just comes 85:36 back in shorter or longer cycle so i'm 85:39 not that excited about it we'll get on 85:40 top of these problems so i don't think 85:43 we're in a new world we just see more 85:45 morphing of the old world into something 85:47 that looks different but it's the same 85:49 underlying thing i sort of think 85:52 we have to keep in mind this is i think 85:53 the 50th anniversary of uh milton 85:56 friedman's sort of definition of the 85:58 purpose of the corporation and 86:00 maximizing profit if you actually read 86:02 that article carefully it's purpose of 86:05 corporations to maximize profit common 86:08 comma all things considered which 86:11 gets into this logic that axel is 86:14 referring to in terms of what i call 86:15 stakeholder capitalism which means the 86:17 broader purview and i think we're now 86:19 living in an environment where people 86:22 are 86:23 and you see this now with the recent 86:25 chinese plenum and you also see this 86:27 with the big american corporations 86:29 they're more focused not 86:32 on maximizing profit but what i call 86:34 stable growth and stable growth doesn't 86:37 imply volatility and growth it implies 86:39 managed growth over a period of time 86:41 because they're looking at more 86:42 long-term r d and they've got a number 86:45 of objectives so i think you're seeing a 86:47 shift from 86:48 more volatile growth just more 86:52 projected stable growth in the developed 86:54 world but also and that's one of the 86:55 things the chinese are equally focused 86:57 on 86:59 there's a relevant question from the 87:00 audience here given that the given the 87:03 impressive job done by the private 87:05 sector you mentioned the stacey to 87:06 develop vaccines and record time given 87:09 that it required public investment 87:12 and facilitation do we also need an 87:14 operation warp speed 87:16 to rapidly develop new technologies to 87:18 address the climate crisis 87:20 well it didn't all require uh 87:22 a public investment i mean pfizer no 87:24 there was made that decision on 87:26 themselves right so i think that there 87:27 is that opportunity i do believe though 87:29 that there is a place for the government 87:32 to work together with the private sector 87:34 in a constructive way less adversarial 87:36 so we can that we can advance those 87:38 initiatives and 87:39 i think it's i think it's really 87:41 important and when we think about 87:42 oh i just lost my train of thought i'll 87:43 let you go 87:45 well let me pick up on that i think r d 87:47 is important and oftentimes uh you know 87:50 when the farm industry 87:52 the private sector has rnd you take the 87:54 internet a last part of that was done by 87:55 darpa and the defense administration and 87:58 then post you know poured out so there's 88:00 some areas where rnd as an example uh 88:02 the public sector can play critical or 88:04 in singapore we have an agency called a 88:06 star we have an r d budget of about 21 88:08 22 billion dollars for every five year 88:10 period and we along with participation 88:13 private sector figure where to put those 88:15 dollars to work and a substantial amount 88:17 of it is now going in things about you 88:18 know how do you think about nature based 88:19 solutions greening the economy creating 88:22 institutes of learning uh driving the 88:24 education agenda on some of these 88:25 subjects so i think the public sector 88:27 can play a role and they're not in 88:28 conflict you know it can be a commercial 88:30 opportunity and to be focused on profit 88:32 and to be focused on long-term growth 88:34 and stable growth and that's the 88:36 environment i believe we should be 88:38 fostering when i think about some of the 88:40 decisions we've made in our own business 88:42 just looking back through time in 2003 88:44 we're investing in environmental markets 88:46 uh with the climate exchange that we 88:48 acquired in 2010 because of we thought 88:50 the importance of the 88:52 that work and also the commercial 88:53 opportunities that we predicted we were 88:55 going to see from that same logic when 88:56 we announced our launch of natural asset 88:58 companies which provides an opportunity 89:00 for investors to invest in the natural 89:02 resources that we want to see become 89:05 nature positive so that we can have a 89:06 positive influence that's a commercial 89:08 opportunity it's also a successful 89:12 endeavor for all of us and mankind and i 89:15 i believe strongly we should be 89:16 fostering those those projects one of 89:18 the things eric i think we've got to be 89:20 following on what's what stacy has said 89:22 is 89:23 there's a 89:24 the whole esg area has been 89:27 managed with the pr point of view as 89:29 being very negative it's everything is 89:32 what i call negative sg negative 89:33 climates everything is you can't 89:35 obviously you've got to constrain coal 89:37 you've got to constrain carbon you've 89:38 got to constrain methane but let's be on 89:41 the 89:41 offensive side there's an extraordinary 89:44 number of industries the green 89:47 industries which are not given enough 89:49 attention they're not given enough 89:50 profile 89:52 any of them are not in america which is 89:53 probably why they're not given enough 89:54 profile many of them are in europe or in 89:56 asia and particularly in china 89:58 where there's a big growing business so 90:02 i think we need to figure out broader 90:04 policies to make sure that these 90:06 companies are given 90:07 stacey more profile more capital 90:10 more opportunities 90:12 to expand and really set aside given 90:15 incentives tax incentives or other 90:17 incentives more than what we have now in 90:19 order to grow because this is 90:21 this is going to take the industrial 90:23 revolution took a long time this is 90:25 going to take a long time and we've got 90:27 to transition this this isn't about 90:29 turning off 90:30 hydrocarbons 90:32 turning this on because this is still 90:34 very nascent we need to sort of but we 90:36 need to focus on the positive side of 90:39 where the investment is needs to be 90:41 actually part of the investment actually 90:43 is on what you said john it is the 90:44 transition yeah you got to get 90:46 industries to move from brown to light 90:48 brown light brown to light green and 90:50 light green to green it's not going to 90:51 go 90:52 one to the other so it's a trillion 90:54 dollar opportunity absolutely 90:56 you started your comments in this 90:58 conversation talking about 91:01 how we run the world 91:03 and um the need for activist governments 91:07 the rise of crypto 91:10 embodies a mistrust of 91:12 institutions especially monetary 91:14 institutions and governments and it 91:17 embodies the collective desire for 91:19 the decentralization 91:21 of financial power how in the context of 91:24 this conversation do you 91:26 think about 91:27 decentralization and tools like 91:30 cryptocurrency well 91:31 [Music] 91:33 that's the challenge i alluded to so you 91:34 know maybe not in this room but if you 91:36 talk to any young kid today you talk to 91:38 the technocrats you talk to the 91:40 evangelist 91:42 they will tell you that the future of 91:43 the world is self-sovereign 8 billion 91:45 people each of us can be sovereign we 91:47 have our own identity it is tokenized my 91:49 data is my own my interactions are 91:52 our own i will deal smart contracts i 91:54 will have my own currency so in web 2 91:56 2-0 the big risk was due 91:59 debate between the kingdom of facebook 92:00 versus the kingdom of sweden in web 3-0 92:03 it's not even that is it do you each 92:05 become and self-sovereign identity and 92:07 work with that and believe me there's 92:10 hundreds of millions of people who think 92:11 that 92:12 the future and which way i say it's a 92:14 massive paradigm shift we're good to 92:16 think no i don't believe that will 92:17 happen i think there is a lot vested in 92:19 cultural identities nation states what 92:21 we built you know the best failing 92:22 democracy so i don't think it will 92:24 happen but it will require us to think 92:26 very hard on how do we construct a 92:28 system where a large number of people 92:30 think i don't need a government i don't 92:31 need a currency i don't need a fair 92:33 currency i don't need a bank i don't 92:35 need a central bank i don't need a stock 92:36 exchange so how do you balance these two 92:38 and create the artifacts that you need 92:41 to run the world in the future is that 92:42 right axel i want you to jump in here 92:44 you've run institutions on the public 92:45 and the private side 92:47 what do you think 92:48 well look uh you asked about crypto uh 92:51 it's 92:52 the hybrid and people usually talk about 92:54 the hybrid instead of the details we 92:57 really like the technology behind that 92:59 blockchain technology distributed ledger 93:01 we do a lot of that trade finance as 93:03 banks with that the crypto part is where 93:06 i'm skeptical because the whole idea is 93:09 let's sort of move payments from banks 93:11 and 93:12 cash to something that is an anonymous 93:14 vehicle where both sides of the 93:16 transactions are not known that will not 93:17 survive the only part where you had that 93:20 in the old paradigm was banknotes 93:23 governments have phased out large 93:25 denomination banknotes because they 93:27 didn't want large transactions with no 93:30 fingerprint and no id on it 93:33 and crypto trying to do that in digital 93:34 is going to be jumped up on by 93:36 government as much in the traditional 93:38 world was as it will be in in the sort 93:41 of digital world so i love the 93:43 technology i think the idea of having 93:46 you know instantaneous transaction 93:48 between a large number of people 93:50 fantastic but 93:53 i think it needs to have a kyc know your 93:55 client an aml procedure around it 93:57 otherwise it will not survive 93:58 governments are working hard to avoid 94:01 illegal activities that could be done 94:03 through transaction in financial sphere 94:06 and governments will not tolerate this 94:07 to become really big the regulation will 94:09 definitely follow and governments are 94:10 definitely going to get involved 94:13 the revolution that drove crypto i think 94:15 gets to john's point about the 94:16 individuals saying hey the system 94:18 doesn't work for me you know they feel 94:19 left out and that that decentralization 94:22 if we don't address those underlying 94:23 themes of individuals not feeling part 94:26 of the framework that we've created 94:27 we're going to see that that conflict 94:30 continue 94:33 whether we define it as a new paradigm 94:35 or 94:36 an evolution of the old paradigm i think 94:38 you all have a much better sense of what 94:40 the world we're living in today looks 94:42 like and what more importantly what it's 94:44 going to look like in the days the weeks 94:46 the months and years ahead 94:47 please join me in thanking our panel 94:50 [Applause] 94:54 [Music] 95:07 [Music] 95:22 [Music] 95:34 [Music] 95:52 [Music] 95:57 heart 96:01 [Music] 96:09 [Music] 96:23 [Music] 96:30 so 96:37 [Music] 97:37 [Music] 98:28 [Music] 98:53 [Music] 99:14 [Music] 99:20 do 99:24 [Music] 99:43 [Music] 100:12 [Music] 101:02 [Music] 101:28 [Music] 101:41 [Music] 101:54 do 101:56 [Music] 102:22 [Music] 102:38 [Music] 102:48 [Music] 103:06 [Applause] 103:12 [Music] 103:42 so 103:44 [Music] 104:01 [Music] 104:09 [Music] 104:23 [Music] 104:35 [Music] 104:46 [Music] 105:02 [Music] 105:09 so 105:37 [Music] 105:59 [Music] 107:20 [Music] 107:29 so 108:19 [Music] 108:27 [Music] 108:40 [Music] 109:09 [Music] 109:13 foreign 109:19 [Music] 109:35 so 109:36 [Music] 109:56 [Music] 110:05 [Music] 110:33 [Music] 110:44 so 110:50 [Music] 111:08 [Music] 112:26 [Music] 115:11 [Music] 115:31 [Music] 115:55 [Music] 116:15 [Music] 116:34 so 116:47 [Music] 117:25 [Music] 117:36 [Music] 117:42 so 117:43 [Music] 117:56 [Music] 118:35 [Music] 119:13 [Music] 119:18 [Music] 119:28 [Music] 119:42 [Music] 119:54 [Music] 120:27 [Laughter] 120:33 so 120:41 [Laughter] 120:49 hmm 120:53 [Music] 121:02 [Music] 121:11 [Music] 121:21 um 121:23 [Music] 121:32 [Music] 121:38 [Music] 121:45 [Music] 122:04 [Music] 122:43 [Music] 122:51 [Music] 122:59 [Music] 123:23 so 123:29 [Music] 123:39 [Music] 123:46 [Music] 124:18 [Music] 124:59 [Music] 125:28 so 125:54 so 126:05 our program will begin in five minutes 126:08 please make your way to your seat 126:14 [Music] 126:19 [Music] 126:28 foreign 126:29 [Music] 127:28 [Music] 128:11 [Music] 128:37 [Music] 128:48 [Music] 129:01 [Music] 129:12 [Music] 129:23 please take your seats our program will 129:26 begin shortly 129:29 [Music] 129:52 [Applause] 129:54 [Music] 130:24 [Music] 130:31 [Music] 130:40 [Music] 130:54 [Music] 131:00 please welcome to the stage blimbag 131:02 editor-in-chief john michaelthwaite 131:05 [Music] 131:17 [Music] 131:19 hello 131:20 it's my great 131:22 pleasure to welcome hopefully on a 131:23 screen 131:25 in front of me here um henry kissinger 131:28 to ask him questions 131:29 on your behalf so hopefully henry is 131:31 going to appear 131:37 i can hear your voice henry 131:39 uh welcome to the new economy forum 131:41 thank you again for talking to us 131:43 i know how much you tried to get here 131:46 um 131:47 i was going to begin 131:49 by 131:50 asking you about the last physical 131:53 meeting 131:54 that we had at the newark 131:56 economy forum in 2019 131:59 you warned us about being in the 132:00 foothills of a new cold war with china 132:04 and then in the last virtual version of 132:07 this you told me 132:08 that you thought we had reached the high 132:10 mountain passes 132:12 that was back in the days of donald 132:14 trump 132:16 since then of of course we have had the 132:18 biden presidency and i think it'd be 132:20 fair to say that the first 132:22 period of the biden presidency was one 132:24 of 132:25 increased tensions with china 132:28 but over the past week 132:30 we have seen in a sense kind of come 132:32 down the mountain we had the 132:35 deal 132:37 to do with climate at cop and now we've 132:39 had this conversation between president 132:41 xi and president biden 132:42 which as wang shi-shan said earlier was 132:45 sort of there were common understandings 132:47 and i suppose my bait my first question 132:50 for you is 132:51 are we 132:52 beginning to come down the mountain or 132:54 do you still see this as a 132:56 as a relationship heading in the wrong 132:58 direction 133:00 i'd say 133:02 we're through the mountain paths 133:05 on 133:06 a precipice 133:08 from which you can look 133:10 in both directions 133:13 and now it depends 133:17 which direction is chosen 133:20 being on the edge of a precipice is 133:22 never normally a good start but all the 133:23 same on the on the necessary 133:26 conditions for us to start coming down 133:29 the mountain so to speak what do you 133:31 think 133:32 america needs to do 133:35 what does joe biden need to do to help 133:37 change this relationship if he wants to 133:39 do 133:42 that i think 133:46 both sides 133:48 have to 133:51 accept 133:53 adapt the view 133:55 that they can't 133:57 between 133:58 major 133:59 technical powers 134:02 of 134:04 comparable capacities 134:07 must not occur 134:10 for the preservation of humanity 134:13 and they therefore have to decide 134:18 that they will attempt 134:21 to 134:22 compose their differences 134:26 to a level in which coexistence 134:30 becomes 134:31 not only possible 134:33 but essential 134:38 i think the conversations this weekend 134:43 last few days 134:45 were a good 134:47 beginning 134:49 of this statement 134:51 of a possible mood 134:55 they now have to 134:57 be followed 134:58 by concrete discussions 135:01 that lead in the direction 135:04 both presidents 135:06 have affirmed they want to pursue 135:10 where do you see america in that just to 135:12 push you on that do you think that 135:14 america is committed 135:18 to a better relationship with china or 135:19 do you think it still sees it as a 135:21 strategic rival 135:22 what is your impression of the biden 135:24 administration 135:27 it is 135:28 inherent 135:30 it's indian and in the 135:33 technology and economic 135:37 economy of each side 135:39 that countries will consider 135:42 each other 135:43 as competitors 135:46 and public opinion in the united states 135:49 has 135:51 moved 135:53 into the direction of looking at china 135:58 as a rival 136:01 the 136:02 necessity 136:03 for both sides 136:05 is to see 136:08 whether from that posture 136:11 they can move towards 136:14 a pattern 136:17 in which 136:19 disputes 136:21 are attempting to be 136:23 mitigated 136:25 and in which they realize 136:28 that a victor 136:30 is not possible 136:32 without a risk of destroying humanity 136:38 on that particular thing are there 136:40 particular areas 136:43 that you would want to see america and 136:45 for that matter china concentrating on 136:47 we have seen 136:48 the progress on climate 136:50 but are there other areas other 136:52 opportunities that you can see 136:55 where there is room 136:57 for cooperation 137:00 well there has been 137:04 some progress made 137:06 on 137:07 climate change 137:10 and there is a whole range 137:15 of technically 137:17 dudes 137:18 in which cooperation 137:21 between the two sides 137:24 could bring 137:25 could bring 137:26 benefit 137:29 and 137:31 there is there are also 137:35 tensions in the world 137:38 in which cooperation between china and 137:40 the united states 137:42 say on nuclear proliferation 137:47 is of the 137:49 greatest 137:50 of the greatest importance 137:54 so 137:55 there are many topics 137:58 which it is at least important 138:02 to begin to 138:03 see 138:05 whether the views of the two sides 138:08 are sufficiently compatible to permit 138:10 cooperation 138:12 and if there's 138:14 if that is not possible 138:18 how to prevent them from 138:20 from moving 138:21 towards 138:22 conflict are you convinced on the about 138:26 the china's good intentions in this i 138:28 mean if you talk to a lot of people in 138:30 in the united states or indeed in the 138:33 west they will say that china is not 138:36 is bent on becoming a bigger power and 138:40 that america and other things are in its 138:41 way it wants to go its own way it is 138:43 merely biding its time 138:46 do you see the current 138:48 chinese regime which you know well 138:50 do you see that as one which does want 138:52 that degree of cooperation that you've 138:54 just spoken about 138:59 my task as a student of foreign policy 139:03 is not primarily to a psychoanalysis 139:06 the chinese 139:08 regime 139:11 i assume 139:13 that chinese leaders will work 139:16 towards 139:17 the maximum capability of their country 139:21 our task as americans and 139:24 non-chinese 139:26 is to 139:28 understand what we need to do 139:31 to make sure that there is 139:34 at least equivalence 139:36 and 139:37 in no case 139:39 subordination 139:41 if we understand that and if the chinese 139:44 understand their interests 139:48 as i believe they are 139:51 very capable of 139:53 then it should be possible to make 139:55 arrangements 139:58 by which the level of competition 140:01 is reduced to a point 140:03 that makes 140:05 even cooperative measures 140:07 possible 140:09 i'm assuming i'm 140:11 assuming 140:13 that china will operate at a high level 140:17 of its capacity 140:19 because that is the confusion tradition 140:22 and an engineering in chinese history 140:26 it is our obligation to work at an 140:28 equivalent level of capacity 140:32 and then 140:33 to 140:35 ask ourselves 140:38 whether the world will not be better off 140:41 if we 140:42 deal with the outstanding issues 140:46 like climate change 140:49 like 140:50 artificial intelligence 140:54 like 140:55 economic relationships 140:58 from the point of view that leads to 141:00 benefit for both sides 141:05 i would imagine that after 60 70 years 141:07 you might have graduated from a student 141:09 to a to at least an undergraduate in in 141:12 analyzing the chinese 141:13 administration but i wondered what 141:18 what role is there in this for europe 141:21 i mean it's interesting in this debate 141:23 here it's a word one barely he has 141:25 mentioned yet it is still the european 141:27 union is still the world's biggest 141:29 economy 141:30 what role does europe have in this 141:33 geopolitics 141:38 for my generation of american thinkers 141:41 the relationship with europe has been a 141:43 central feature 141:45 of american foreign policy 141:47 and the atlantic partnership is of 141:50 crucial importance 141:53 but the 141:54 problems of the atlantic partnership 141:56 that 141:58 it was formed 141:59 had to do 142:01 on the whole 142:02 with russian challenges 142:05 now the chinese challenges 142:09 are of a different cultural and 142:12 substantive nature 142:14 than the ones that were opposed by 142:19 the european 142:20 embargo 142:22 so 142:24 we cannot automatically 142:26 apply 142:27 all the legends of europe 142:29 to the 142:31 conditions of asia 142:33 but i would expect that in a general 142:36 sense 142:38 europe would look at america's 142:41 problems in other parts of the world 142:44 with sympathy 142:46 and with understanding 142:48 and that we in turn will understand that 142:51 on 142:52 some specific issues 142:55 the europeans because of 142:58 different geography 143:00 history and economy 143:02 might have special concerns 143:04 but the overall lines of policy 143:08 it should 143:09 be 143:10 that europe 143:12 and the united states co-op 143:15 cooperate 143:18 with allowances 143:20 for special conditions 143:22 that may exist 143:24 by country or region 143:27 can i ask you about one thing which i 143:28 know has obsessed you over the past 143:30 couple of years 143:32 artificial intelligence you have a book 143:34 on the age of ai and it is a 143:37 it 143:38 is a large part of the competition 143:41 between china and america in your book 143:43 you describe ai as the biggest change in 143:46 human thinking 143:48 since the enlightenment given given that 143:50 importance 143:51 how do you see the contest between us 143:54 and china 143:55 in terms of artificial intelligence 144:00 well 144:01 federal artificial intelligence 144:04 is a departure in human thinking 144:08 comparable to that which reduce the 144:10 enlightenment 144:12 so a whole new school of 144:15 intellectual evolution 144:18 is bound to develop 144:21 when the results 144:24 are achieved 144:26 by 144:28 achieving a result 144:30 without exactly knowing what the reason 144:33 for it is 144:35 but knowing that it is produced 144:38 by 144:39 an algorithmic understanding 144:42 of events that is a huge change in 144:46 human thinking 144:48 now 144:49 china has the same 144:52 challenge 144:54 how to adjust its thinking to this 144:58 reality 144:59 now if we deal with this entirely in 145:03 entirely competitive terms 145:05 and if we try to determine 145:07 who is superior and if we don't even 145:11 know how to define 145:14 a level what a level of superiority 145:18 is which is strategically youthful 145:22 we could be engaging in a rates which 145:25 as a result of accidents 145:28 leads to consequences 145:31 which we cannot foresee 145:33 so i would hope 145:36 that a way will be found 145:38 by which 145:40 technological discussions between the 145:42 two sides take place 145:44 which permit also an adjustment 145:47 of economic competition 145:50 neither side will accept 145:52 a 145:54 permanently inferior 145:56 understanding 145:59 but both sides have to understand 146:02 that the other will not concede a 146:04 permanently superior standing 146:07 so a dialogue that starts from these 146:09 realities 146:12 is essential 146:13 and there can be 146:15 no 146:16 winners 146:19 in an ai race 146:21 if both sides 146:23 do what they need to do 146:26 can i push you on one particular last 146:28 thing to do with that you mentioned 146:30 nuclear 146:32 conflict before you were involved 146:34 obviously in the talks with the soviet 146:37 union 146:38 about that in your book and in 146:40 conversation you have made the point 146:42 that cyber warfare is completely 146:44 different 146:45 because firstly it is harder for people 146:49 to say exactly what they have because 146:51 often that is giving away competitive 146:53 advantage 146:54 but also the bigger idea that we now 146:56 have computers which in order to fight 146:58 each other 146:59 should operate almost without human 147:01 control 147:03 is there a 147:04 a kind of organization or a governing 147:07 principle that america and china should 147:09 join in on this is there 147:11 a way in which you could have a modern 147:13 version of of disarmament 147:18 logic of cyber warfare 147:21 is 147:23 to operate at a speed 147:26 which is beyond human capacity 147:29 and therefore the temptation is 147:31 to build automatic responses 147:35 into weapon systems 147:37 but 147:39 if you deprive these issues 147:42 of any human element 147:45 then the danger 147:46 check the disaster 147:48 systems 147:49 might make 147:51 a judgment which you didn't foresee 147:54 and the danger of an automatic conflict 147:58 creation 148:00 have become very great 148:03 so how to build human judgment 148:05 into 148:06 cyber 148:08 confrontations 148:09 and how to solve the problem that these 148:13 types of weapons 148:15 are usually kept very secret within each 148:18 country 148:19 so to expose them to discussion with a 148:22 foreign country is not a matter that has 148:25 been 148:26 ever done 148:28 before 148:29 but without it 148:31 it will not be possible 148:33 to achieve meaningful restraints 148:36 but 148:37 peace 148:39 strain these attempts to achieve 148:41 restraints 148:42 must not become a way 148:44 of intelligence exploitation so much 148:48 as a way of 148:50 it or at all 148:51 but as a way of looking at a 148:55 novel 148:59 elemental change 149:01 in human cognition which is now 149:05 imposed on us 149:07 to deal with 149:09 and 149:10 a few hundred years ago 149:12 the german philosopher khan said 149:16 the road 149:16 predicted 149:19 that 149:20 peace would be achieved at some point in 149:23 human history 149:24 either by human insight 149:26 or by catastrophes of a magnitude that 149:30 will permit no other choice 149:32 we are exactly that point 149:35 in our 149:37 conduct 149:39 and the responsibility of our leaders 149:43 is 149:44 to try to fulfill it 149:46 and i must say i think the dialogue has 149:50 begun 149:51 on an appropriate level 149:54 appropriate to the challenge 149:59 because 150:00 thank you very much for talking to us um 150:02 you put us on a precipice and you ended 150:04 up with immanuel kant 150:05 but thank you very much um and all thank 150:07 you very much also for being our 150:09 co-chairman you are much missed 150:11 thank you for staying up um late to do 150:14 this 150:14 and we will see you next year 150:17 thank you 150:19 [Applause] 150:30 [Music] 151:05 [Music] 151:21 [Music] 151:29 [Music] 151:36 [Music] 151:54 [Music] 152:03 please welcome a moderator bloomberg 152:05 television anchor sharian and her 152:07 panelists vice president of the united 152:10 republic of tanzania his excellency dr 152:12 philip isdo and pango 152:14 ceo and founder of asa finance elizabeth 152:17 rozier 152:20 president and ceo of paypal dan shulman 152:23 and senior minister of the republic of 152:25 singapore taraman shem garathnam 152:42 good morning 152:44 thank you very much for joining us today 152:47 the title of this session is the 152:49 two-speed global recovery the dangers of 152:52 a widening rich poor gap of course 152:55 for the past few decades we have seen 152:57 the global economy 152:58 converge with lower income countries 153:01 catching up to wealthier ones thanks to 153:03 capital the advance of technology but it 153:06 seems the pandemic has reversed that 153:08 trend 153:09 so we are now seeing 153:11 the imf warn of a dangerous divergence 153:15 we are seeing of course this being 153:16 exacerbated by the 153:19 great vaccine divide more than 90 of 153:21 populations in lower income countries 153:23 are still unvaccinated 153:25 so this panel 153:27 will try to tackle those issues to see 153:30 where we're at in the state of the 153:32 global recovery and of course how we can 153:34 heal 153:36 really the biggest scars of the pandemic 153:39 and try to ensure an equitable recovery 153:42 we have an amazing lineup of guests 153:45 thank you very much for joining us today 153:47 first of all his excellency dr philip 153:49 israel pongo vice president 153:51 of the united republic of tanzania 153:54 elizabeth rosiello who's the ceo and 153:56 founder of as of finance 154:00 also dan shulman president and ceo of 154:01 paypal and of course 154:03 tarman ratnam senior minister and 154:06 chairman of the monetary authority of 154:08 singapore welcome to you all and thank 154:09 you very much for being here with us 154:12 let's start with the state of the global 154:14 recovery because as i mentioned we have 154:16 seen this rich and poor divide just 154:19 become more persistent during the 154:21 pandemic become more evident 154:24 let me start with you mr vice president 154:26 what are you seeing in terms of the 154:28 global economic recovery 154:30 and the inequalities that we're seeing 154:32 within nations 154:33 within tanzania around the world among 154:36 nations as well 154:41 well first 154:42 thank you for the opportunity to be here 154:46 this is a great chance for us 154:48 in sub-saharan africa 154:51 to share with the world 154:52 the experiences we are having 154:55 with the pandemic 155:00 well first what we see is a 155:03 very sluggish recovery 155:05 but very uneven 155:08 and 155:09 it is sluggish particularly for 155:13 countries like tanzania 155:16 where to start with we had very weak 155:20 public health systems 155:23 and therefore we really took a hard 155:25 knock 155:27 having to struggle with 155:30 very 155:31 nascent 155:34 health facilities 155:36 we had to 155:38 convert 155:40 even theaters at some point to be able 155:43 to accommodate 155:46 health patients 155:48 people 155:50 that succumbed to the pandemic 155:54 we had to 155:57 really 155:59 struggle with the related facilities 156:02 oxygen for example my own country has 156:05 only one 156:06 oxygen plant in the whole country of 60 156:09 million people 156:11 and therefore 156:12 uh you you you can guess the 156:15 consequences of having to to struggle 156:18 with all 156:20 150 156:21 000 patients 156:23 but also the unevenness 156:26 comes because 156:28 some families 156:30 lost their loved ones 156:31 and in that case when you lose 156:34 bred eners 156:36 you know the consequences 156:38 you 156:39 throw the entire family in 156:42 in poverty 156:44 i can cite an example where a family in 156:47 three days 156:48 lost the head of the household and the 156:51 mother of the household and both 156:52 professors 156:54 so we have really lost out 156:57 but apart from 157:00 the 157:00 health 157:01 sector effects 157:03 we have had 157:05 a serious knock on the economy 157:08 and the financial sector 157:11 and and here 157:13 tourism for example right as the borders 157:17 closed 157:18 we did 157:20 not receive tourists no airlines were 157:22 coming 157:25 so 157:26 tourist 157:27 operators shut down jobs were lost 157:32 and 157:34 same for trade 157:36 international trade collapsed 157:40 we could not 157:42 import the necessary raw materials 157:45 from our major trading partners china 157:47 india and the like really 157:49 this pandemic has been a very 157:52 tragic 157:54 one for everyone indeed very very tragic 157:57 and 158:00 i think really key here is that 158:04 we ask the advanced world 158:07 not to forget sub-saharan africa 158:10 because the challenge that we see is 158:12 that 158:14 while 158:15 the advanced economies 158:18 are recovering 158:20 relatively fast because they have the 158:22 vaccines we don't have the vaccines 158:26 the facilities that have been availed to 158:28 us 158:29 they're just too little 158:32 and 158:33 the pandemic is global 158:36 on that note let me ask minister tharman 158:40 about your thoughts on how much have 158:42 high income economies done so far faced 158:45 with this crisis and this divergence 158:48 that the vice president is talking about 158:50 well i think the vice the divergence and 158:53 that we know 158:55 in a very sharp sense 158:57 is the divergence in vaccine access 159:00 that's well known 159:01 but i think underpinning it is now a 159:04 gulf that's opened up 159:07 in trust 159:09 between the developing world and the 159:11 advanced world 159:13 a gulf and trust that's opening up even 159:16 within societies 159:20 some societies have come out okay in 159:22 fact there's some societies where trust 159:24 seems to be even stronger than it was 159:26 before kovid because people found a way 159:29 of collaborating with each other for the 159:31 common good 159:32 but the many other societies where 159:34 divisions are just 159:36 sharper than they used to be 159:38 and we see that 159:40 in the news every day 159:42 and trust in institutions 159:45 across the world is now lower than it 159:47 was two years ago it was already 159:48 weakening for some years 159:50 and it's much lower than it used to be 159:53 trust in some governments has held up 159:55 trust in many governments is now weaker 159:57 than it's ever been 159:58 and trust 160:00 and multilateralism 160:02 is at a all-time low 160:04 on all the issues to do with the common 160:06 good right trust and multilateralism or 160:09 even 160:10 pluralism the g20 and other groupings 160:14 uh trust is lower than it used to be 160:16 and we have to be concerned about that 160:18 and it means addressing it 160:20 just through narratives not just through 160:22 saying the right things we need concrete 160:25 collaborative ventures 160:27 whether it's on climate change 160:29 or 160:30 making sure that we can scale up 160:32 backseat production and distribution 160:35 or critically 160:37 looking beyond kovit 160:39 addressing the issues that existed 160:41 before cobit are now are now much more 160:43 accentuated we have a crisis in learning 160:46 the biggest divide in the world by the 160:48 way 160:49 by far the most profound and the most 160:51 dangerous divide we have is in learning 160:53 opportunities 160:57 let's talk a little bit about what's 160:58 going on the ground 161:00 because of course elizabeth you cater to 161:02 frontier markets what are you seeing 161:04 so i would say hope is not all lost it's 161:06 true there's been six million 161:08 vaccinations in nigeria which is a 161:10 population of 206 million um that's 161:14 clear but the entrepreneurial resilience 161:16 of the african continent where i've been 161:18 running this business 161:20 for eight years is unmatched and 161:22 unparalleled and it was during covid 161:24 that we saw the rise of the first 161:26 african unicorns and there are now seven 161:28 unicorns on the continent after a decade 161:30 of being almost zero and all of those 161:32 are in digital businesses and amongst my 161:35 peers on the continent we're used to 161:38 you know epidemics you know the election 161:40 violence we've closed our office our 161:42 offices in nairobi in lagos and dakar 10 161:45 12 times over the last eight years so we 161:47 already had a work from home strategy 161:50 our employees were already completely 161:51 set up you can give an allowance for 161:53 energy or be coming online it was a 161:56 seamless transition so it's almost a 161:58 bifurcation of the 162:00 economy in terms of the traditional 162:02 formal government economy and also the 162:03 informal online youth economy and the 162:06 resilience that we've seen and the 162:08 bounce back has been tremendous and even 162:10 in the the formal financial sector we 162:12 have seen you know record-breaking 162:13 returns for the nigerian banking sector 162:16 just announced and i think what we can 162:18 see is that you know 162:20 um there hasn't been a lot of 162:22 international investment outside of 162:23 international aid on the african 162:25 continent for the last you know few 162:28 years nothing matched with the venture 162:29 or private equity investment so what's 162:32 what what that has mean is that a lot of 162:33 bootstrap companies like aloysius here 162:36 another catalyst 162:38 working a lot of companies that have 162:40 been 10 years without funding that are 162:42 now you know perfectly positioned to 162:44 thrive in this kind of market dan what 162:46 are you seeing on the ground especially 162:47 when it comes to elizabeth talk about 162:49 some dynamism still on the ground 162:52 i think the uh 162:54 pandemic 162:56 exposed as thurman was saying trends 162:58 that have been happening for a long time 163:01 um 163:02 there are 163:03 at least 1.7 billion people throughout 163:06 the world who don't have access to 163:09 financial services i would say you could 163:11 double that that are underserved today a 163:14 hundred million 163:16 incremental people went into extreme 163:18 poverty 163:20 uh during the pandemic um 163:23 and it disproportionately 163:25 has affected um 163:28 women um it's affected uh 163:31 many vulnerable uh populations and so 163:35 this was going on before but the 163:37 pandemic really i think 163:41 cast a a spotlight on it that we cannot 163:43 ignore like we are all a part of our 163:46 communities businesses are a part of 163:48 their communities governments are part 163:51 of not just their own uh country but 163:54 but the rural community and so i think 163:57 the pandemics is going to force 164:00 us to think about how we think about the 164:03 world in general because i think when 164:04 you have such unrest that thurman was 164:07 mentioning his excellency was mentioning 164:10 that threatens the foundations of 164:14 political systems as well so i think 164:16 it's a it's a dangerous time and i i 164:19 think 164:21 uh we need to be sure that there's a 164:22 equal recovery as best we can just a 164:25 reminder for our audience if you have 164:27 any questions you have the nef app so 164:29 you can send us your questions and i'll 164:31 get them here and try to get them 164:33 for you but dan let me just go back to 164:36 your point about of course the pandemic 164:38 really exacerbating some of the 164:40 existing problems like minister thurman 164:42 was saying it's not that we didn't have 164:43 a divide we did but it just worsened the 164:45 situation what about some of the bright 164:47 spots because we also saw this 164:49 acceleration of digitization and perhaps 164:53 really the interconnectedness of the 164:55 world and what is people doing there 164:58 in order to have a recovery 165:01 that includes everyone 165:03 i think clearly the world leapfrogged 165:06 into 165:07 you know 165:08 call it the actually the beginning of 165:10 the digital era uh right now 165:13 um and everything we do the way we work 165:16 the way we live the way we uh get our 165:19 medicine 165:21 the way we uh educate ourselves went 165:23 into a digital realm uh the way we 165:25 finance the way we pay for things went 165:28 uh digital and i think um you know my 165:32 hope 165:33 for this um and the reason 165:36 and i get up every morning and i'm 165:38 excited about what we're trying to 165:41 do inside paypal and working with others 165:43 throughout the ecosystem is that i think 165:45 there is a solution 165:48 rooted in technology i mean everything 165:50 is moving to the mobile phone the mobile 165:52 phone is getting less and less expensive 165:54 you can get a good mobile phone now for 165:56 like 25 165:58 and so it is 166:01 that's connecting us together you have 166:02 all the power of a bank branch in the 166:05 palm of your hand right now and pesa 166:07 taught us that right away and and paypal 166:09 and m-pesa now are interoperable so that 166:12 you can work together and i think 166:14 you if you use the technology you can 166:17 make the managing and moving of money 166:21 faster less expensive and by doing that 166:24 hopefully drive some incremental 166:26 financial health which i think is again 166:29 the bedrock of so many things 166:31 at the same time though i have to wonder 166:33 if it's also going to sort of increase 166:35 the digital divide as well because of 166:37 course we know many 166:39 people in africa 166:41 are still not connected to the internet 166:43 what have you seen mr vice president 166:45 when it comes 166:46 to the pandemic and the acceleration of 166:50 digitization well um 166:54 i i think the gentleman who just spoke 166:57 has it right 166:59 from 167:01 tanzania and the rest of 167:03 the continent 167:05 we really see 167:06 that there is an opportunity 167:08 if the advanced world 167:10 could share with africa 167:13 the digital technologies 167:16 the right from screening 167:19 testing 167:21 and so on and this would 167:24 would make a huge difference for us who 167:26 are still struggling with 167:28 with such facilities but in addition to 167:31 that 167:31 we would need the multilateral 167:33 institutions 167:35 the imf the world bank 167:37 the regional banks 167:39 to come in 167:41 with even more 167:43 financial support 167:45 to really be able to enable sub-saharan 167:49 african countries to access 167:52 and buy these technologies by these 167:56 medicines to fight the pandemic 167:59 so there is an 168:01 opportunities not that 168:03 yes indeed there are challenges in terms 168:05 of 168:06 how fast we can absorb 168:08 digital technologies 168:10 but already africa has 168:13 shown wonders for example in applying 168:16 mobile technologies 168:19 to to reach our 168:21 people in the rural areas and i don't 168:23 see any problem at all that we can catch 168:25 up very easily and 168:27 i think it was said 168:28 the african people are innovative they 168:31 are resilient 168:32 they can match up fairly quickly as long 168:35 as 168:36 the digital technologies are shared with 168:38 us 168:39 elizabeth 168:41 in terms of digital technologies being 168:43 shared across africa what are you seeing 168:44 and what are perhaps some of the 168:46 prospects of new technologies like 168:48 blockchain that could actually 168:50 accelerate some of the progress there 168:52 well i mean honestly we joke about this 168:54 a lot of the company but the internet 168:56 access in kenya is better than in london 168:58 sometimes and you know on our 169:00 i have a house in lama which is in the 169:02 remote northern border of somalia in 169:04 kenya and you have 5g access thanks to 169:06 some mesh networks that were set up by a 169:08 local community so mesh networks have 169:10 been you know 10-year project across 169:13 kenya and we're seeing that all over 169:15 east africa etc similarly when you enter 169:17 the airport in senegal on the other side 169:19 of the continent 169:21 they've had fingerprint access digital 169:23 thermometer readings 169:25 ability to screen for for covid for some 169:27 time now so across the 55 markets you 169:29 see all sorts of levels of digitization 169:31 when we were the first company to 169:33 introduce cryptocurrencies on the 169:34 continent in 2013 which i guess was too 169:37 soon 169:39 we had some bumps along the road but now 169:41 it's quite exciting to see the uptake 169:43 and actually during the last two years 169:45 we've seen so many central banks move 169:47 forward with legislation and policies 169:50 that you know have taken eight years to 169:52 to move forward and in the last two 169:54 years have almost raced to the forefront 169:56 including the introduction of the inira 169:58 in nigeria just last month let's 170:01 talk a little bit about the regulatory 170:02 framework there minister thurman because 170:04 elizabeth what's just saying that 170:05 perhaps they introduced cryptocurrency a 170:07 little bit too soon what are the risks 170:09 of that and i know that you've been 170:11 looking at 170:12 crypto blockchain all from the lens of 170:14 fintech and the opportunities that it 170:16 presents 170:18 well i think we've got to always start 170:20 with the use case what's the objective 170:23 not not what what's the solution but 170:25 what's the objective so dan spoke about 170:27 financial inclusion 170:29 that's a that's a very large use case 170:31 because a large part of the developing 170:33 world still doesn't have financial 170:35 inclusion 170:36 uh even just internet excess right a 170:39 large part of the world rather 170:41 roughly 80 percent in the developing 170:43 world doesn't even have internet access 170:46 a large part 170:48 of 170:49 society even within the advanced world 170:52 doesn't even have internet access 170:55 um 170:55 i'll give you an example and it's really 170:58 worth shining a light on this 171:02 about 171:03 20 percent of sub-saharan africa and a 171:05 good part of the developing world has 171:07 internet access 80 don't 171:11 in detroit 171:12 milwaukee 171:14 baltimore 171:15 it's about 30 percent 171:17 of school growing children 171:19 that live in homes with internet like 171:21 yes 171:23 they're developing countries 171:25 so we've got to shine a light on the 171:26 basic problems and that defines our use 171:29 case 171:30 how do we improve internet access how do 171:33 we get more learning inclusion how do we 171:35 raise standards 171:37 how do we have financial inclusion 171:38 access to credit for smes 171:42 those are the big challenges of the 171:43 world 171:44 not so much the incremental changes in 171:46 costs for cross-border 171:49 uh 171:50 payments and and stuff that's all 171:52 interesting and useful 171:54 but those are small bore 171:56 issues 171:57 the really big challenges are staring at 172:00 us in the face 172:02 inclusion and sustainability are huge 172:05 challenges 172:07 the technologies exist for some of them 172:09 particularly for inclusion 172:11 that technologies are getting there for 172:13 sustainability still not fully bankable 172:16 or investable and we've got to 172:17 accelerate it through a lot more public 172:20 private 172:22 risk sharing it requires risk sharing 172:25 not just um 172:27 support for collaboration it requires 172:30 money to be put 172:32 risk capital to be put in place to share 172:34 risk 172:35 because otherwise the technologies 172:36 aren't going to be in place in time 172:38 for the next decade or next 15 years 172:41 sustainability 172:43 so that's what it takes and i think at 172:45 the end of the day 172:46 if kovit has 172:49 had a benefit 172:52 it is that it has illustrated 172:54 unfortunately in a tragic way but it is 172:56 illustrated that 172:59 collaboration 173:00 internationally 173:03 is far far less costly 173:05 than not collaborating 173:07 and preparing in advance for pandemics 173:11 and other crises 173:14 is going to be far far less costly 173:16 than not preparing 173:19 let's talk a little bit about the 173:21 collaboration and what you mentioned 173:22 about public and private partnerships 173:25 dan how do you use that in order to 173:27 ensure a safe ecosystem and especially 173:29 when it comes to perhaps upgrading the 173:32 broader financial 173:33 [Music] 173:36 system well i think um 173:38 [Music] 173:40 new company 173:43 is an island unto itself um 173:46 i think 173:48 i think the business world is slowly 173:50 but surely recognizing that 173:55 we have multiple stakeholders 173:58 those stakeholders include 174:02 our communities 174:04 include our employees 174:06 they include partnerships with 174:08 governments and regulators and customers 174:12 and 174:13 we need to 174:15 think about what is our purpose as a 174:17 company 174:19 and have 174:21 both profit and purpose work hand in 174:23 hand together um we can't just be about 174:26 making money we need to be about what is 174:28 the impact we can make in the world and 174:31 um and i think 174:33 um some companies are talking about that 174:35 and others are actually doing things 174:38 about that putting 174:39 their products 174:42 putting their 174:43 uh capital to work to look at larger 174:46 things than just the company itself and 174:49 i think that um 174:51 each of us have our own impact to make 174:53 uh we've got to do it in partnership 174:55 together there's no way that paypal can 174:58 make an impact without working with 175:00 people like his excellency and the 175:03 senior minister and others around the 175:05 world we have to work hand in hand 175:07 together regulations need to 175:09 permit uh responsible innovation uh to 175:13 happen 175:14 um but there are so many things that we 175:16 can do when we put our mind together for 175:18 instance like we do 175:20 these 175:22 working capital loans um these working 175:24 capital loans go to 175:26 the 175:27 70 of 175:29 uh states in the in the u.s where 10 or 175:32 more banks have closed branches which 175:34 are under-represented neighborhoods 175:36 and 175:37 70 of our loans go there and it's 175:40 because we use 175:42 technology we use different things and 175:44 traditional fico scores and that kind of 175:46 thing to really think about how can our 175:48 products help these underserved 175:51 communities that's part and parcel of 175:53 our mission and part and parcel of what 175:55 our values are as a company and i think 175:57 if all of us can lean into this 176:00 there are ways that 176:02 we can help in all parts of the world i 176:04 think the impact can be profound we just 176:07 can't think about it as like we can only 176:09 do this we have to think about it in its 176:10 totality that the impact 176:14 could be quite substantial if we do that 176:16 elizabeth 176:18 i couldn't agree more and one example is 176:20 that we process for 35 of the largest 176:23 remittance companies in the world and 176:25 remittances are essential to the growth 176:27 of the african continent and it's not 176:29 just the transaction costs most 176:31 remittance companies struggle with 176:33 accessing last mile with accessing float 176:36 pre-funding treasury these might seem 176:38 like you know esoteric ideas but it's 176:40 it's 176:42 actually opens up the flows of that 34 176:44 billion coming into the continent and 176:46 without fintechs without technology 176:48 companies to do the hard work of 176:50 building into those apis digitizing the 176:52 last mile connecting the mobile money 176:54 like empassa like mtn like 176:57 like airtel bartek into the banks and 176:59 the banks into them and to the cash 177:01 networks that's when we get that 177:03 seamless layer and then development 177:05 money private sector money can flow but 177:07 until we get that infrastructure built 177:09 it's really a bottleneck to a lot of 177:11 growth i worked for five years in 177:12 microfinance across the continents and i 177:15 saw this huge bottleneck into accessing 177:17 funds right and the second part is about 177:19 the use of the dollar so a lot of the 177:22 funds distributed across the african 177:24 continent are still distributed in u.s 177:26 dollars and then on lens and local 177:28 currency causing it a huge fx mismatch 177:30 which is something that needs to be 177:32 addressed i can just build on that 177:34 international remittances are one of the 177:36 most important inflows into certain 177:38 economies 177:39 and traditionally the 177:42 international remittance the fees for 177:44 that can be up to eight percent if you 177:47 go digital wallet to digital wallet you 177:50 can do that at 80 percent reduce cost 177:53 that when you look at the flows that 177:55 that go um in international minutes it's 177:58 a huge number getting money to those who 178:02 most need it mr vice president what's 178:04 your view on what's being said right now 178:06 and let me just also add to that a 178:08 question from our audience who's asking 178:11 the challenges have been highlighted but 178:13 what are the opportunities for emerging 178:15 economies and the reason that i'm 178:17 putting those two together is because at 178:18 the end of the day 178:21 you can 178:22 support developing economies but you 178:24 also need that private capital to flow 178:26 by itself and how do you make yourself 178:28 more 178:30 attractive well 178:32 first before that 178:36 i wanted to follow up again on the 178:38 technology issue 178:40 i think there are 178:42 simple things that we really need to 178:45 to work on 178:47 one of the issues which concern us 178:50 in tanzania 178:52 is the whole issue of having 178:54 a responsible social media 178:58 so for example 179:00 uh instead of 179:03 giving a balanced view on the vaccines 179:06 some of these social medias 179:08 are really talking about you know the 179:11 results 179:12 in making people important 179:16 you know they cause sudden death and 179:18 that kind of 179:20 and in the rural setting 179:22 even in urban areas it is very difficult 179:25 for ordinary people to basically say 179:28 this information on the social media is 179:31 incorrect 179:32 that kind of information 179:36 is the right one and therefore for 179:38 example the 179:40 the phobia we are seeing on 179:42 vaccines partly stems from what i think 179:45 is irresponsible social media and 179:49 both of us have a responsibility to make 179:52 sure that we are educating 179:55 our populations and giving them 179:58 the right 179:59 the right information to be able to 180:02 fight 180:04 this pandemic right 180:05 but also let me 180:07 add that 180:09 i think i would like to see 180:12 the developed world 180:15 supporting us 180:16 in what i see as positive the positive 180:19 side the opportunities 180:22 that i have arose from 180:24 uh from kovid coffee 19. 180:27 for example there are some industries 180:29 that are now coming up 180:31 to produce sanitizers and that kind of 180:35 and 180:35 i think it is important that we provide 180:38 incentives 180:39 to those industries 180:42 using fiscal policies internally but 180:46 also facilitating 180:48 trade 180:49 importation of various inputs that 180:52 go into into into such 180:55 into such industries but even more 180:58 important i think i would like to see 181:01 the 181:02 diverse world cooperating with us on r d 181:06 and in terms of 181:08 some could relocate 181:10 some of the 181:12 the industries manufacturing the 181:14 vaccines for example to the african 181:16 continent they can work with our local 181:19 researchers 181:20 to push 181:22 the knowledge of frontier so 181:25 i think there are ways in which 181:27 if we work together 181:29 we can defeat this pandemic 181:32 fairly uh fairly quickly as compared to 181:36 now that yes 181:38 we are innovative we are resilient 181:41 uh 181:42 depending on the circumstances we are in 181:44 for example in tanzania we decided not 181:46 to 181:47 go for a total lockdown 181:49 because for a population that really 181:51 depends on 181:52 you know a daily 181:54 subsistence way of life 181:57 if you close them you go for a total 181:59 lockdown it's almost imposing on 182:02 omega's chamber which we couldn't do 182:05 so yes there are 182:07 solutions that we can 182:09 push for it's not just the effects 182:12 we are perfectly capable of finding 182:15 solutions to 182:16 move ahead 182:18 minister thurman let me ask you a 182:20 longer-term question of course 182:22 of course when it comes to the broader 182:24 international financial system what can 182:26 we learn from this pandemic 182:28 when it comes to building a sustainable 182:30 uh environment where we do all see 182:33 opportunities for everyone 182:35 so first by the way i should say that i 182:36 agree entirely with what elizabeth and 182:38 dan were saying about remittances 182:40 so don't get me wrong 182:43 the cost of financial inclusion is a 182:44 serious issue and remittances are 182:47 a significant part of earnings for a 182:49 large part of the population in the 182:51 developing world so reducing the cost of 182:53 that is a very good thing 182:55 um on your broader question i would say 182:58 and this touches on what dr ambango just 183:00 said 183:03 to be 183:04 honest about it 183:06 if we try to tackle a pandemic after it 183:08 is started 183:11 it is very costly and it's going to take 183:13 a very long time 183:15 and that's what we've learned in covid 183:17 speed and scale is everything 183:20 and if you start only after 183:22 pentamic has broken out 183:25 even with the best efforts and the best 183:27 private enterprise and the most 183:29 remarkable speed of vaccine development 183:32 we're still in a situation where 183:34 20 months on 183:35 the majority of the world's population 183:37 hasn't had a jab in their arms so we 183:40 have to prepare beforehand and that's 183:44 a huge lesson coming out of corvit 19. 183:47 we must have ahead of time 183:49 manufacturing and distribution 183:51 capabilities 183:53 ahead of time 183:54 and there's no way the private sector or 183:56 the markets are going to deliver that 183:58 first they don't know exactly which 184:00 pathogen is going to be 184:01 the 184:03 source of the pandemic they don't know 184:04 which vaccine is going to succeed and 184:06 get through phase 3 trials so it 184:08 requires public private collaboration in 184:11 a much deeper sense 184:13 to be honest the us did it quite well 184:17 the us through bada and that whole 184:19 combination of government agencies did 184:21 it quite well 184:24 it was developed over the years 184:27 in the last year and a half 184:29 in an almost un-american way 184:31 government did well 184:33 in the us 184:35 even the us army was involved 184:37 in the logistics right 184:40 and we need to have a global bada 184:44 that's what we need 184:45 to develop ahead of time 184:48 with public money sharing risk 184:50 all the way from r d to developing the 184:52 manufacturing capability have ever warm 184:55 manufacturing facilities which you use 184:57 as best as you can in normal times 184:59 because you've got tv you've got malaria 185:01 you've got a whole 185:03 set of endemic diseases and you've got 185:05 to as best as you can use those 185:07 facilities to deal with endemic diseases 185:10 in order to then pivot 185:12 in a pandemic so 185:14 starting once a pandemic has broken out 185:16 you've got to try your very best 185:18 mobilize resources as best as you can 185:21 but even with those best efforts 185:24 it not only takes long but you allow 185:26 mutations to evolve and epidemic becomes 185:29 longer for everyone it's hugely costly 185:32 so just going back to the simple point 185:34 the cost of preparing in advance is 185:36 infinitesimal 185:38 compared to the cost of not preparing 185:40 that's the lesson of kovit and it 185:42 requires international collaboration and 185:44 the cost of collaboration is 185:45 infinitesimal compared to the cost of 185:47 not collaborating 185:49 on that note we'll leave the 185:51 conversation here 185:52 of course those lessons that we'll learn 185:55 through kovit and perhaps what we can do 185:56 next mr tharman thank you very much dan 185:59 elizabeth mr vice president it was great 186:02 having you at the 186:03 bloomberg economy forum thank you thank 186:05 you 186:17 [Music] 186:40 um 187:03 [Music] 187:08 [Music] 187:28 please welcome to the stage of moderator 187:30 john michael freight and 40th secretary 187:33 of commerce of the united states gina 187:35 raimondo 187:36 [Music] 187:46 thank you very much 40th secretary of 187:48 commerce makes it sort of adds a certain 187:50 amount to it um 187:52 we were going to discuss 187:54 two big things which have massive 187:56 interest everyone here 187:57 the first and both within your brief 188:01 come back to u.s competitiveness 188:03 generally in a bit but i thought we 188:05 might begin with trade 188:07 and you've been on a lightning tour 188:10 jet lag tour of asia with malaysia next 188:14 and you said in japan that you wanted to 188:16 form an economic framework that would be 188:19 even better than 188:20 cppt 188:24 or the comprehensive and progressive 188:25 agreement for trans-pacific partnership 188:27 and you said it'd be even more robust in 188:29 some ways than the traditional free 188:31 trade agreement and this is this 188:33 indo-pacific framework which america has 188:35 been talking about and i think many 188:37 of the business people here would say 188:39 look 188:40 we would rather have a trade pact that's 188:42 what we want 188:43 and i know that's difficult politically 188:45 but maybe you could spell out exactly 188:47 what this means and why it is better 188:49 yeah 188:50 so thank you it's good to be with you 188:52 and hello to everybody 188:54 i think that look i understand that you 188:56 know i began my week in tokyo i'm here 188:59 now i'll be heading off to malaysia i'm 189:02 meeting also 189:04 i'm here with my counterparts from new 189:06 zealand and australia and 189:08 we hear that we hear that you know cptpp 189:11 we want america in 189:14 here's what i would say um for various 189:17 reasons you know that is 189:20 not going to happen now 189:22 but the 189:24 president biden is crystal clear when he 189:26 says america is back he means back with 189:29 our allies and back in this region 189:32 so since he's been in office the vice 189:34 president has been in vietnam 189:36 secretary of defense has been here i am 189:38 here 189:39 ustr tai is here we are very 189:44 serious in re-engaging economically with 189:46 the indo-pacific 189:48 and when we talk about the topics it is 189:52 broader in some ways and a little bit 189:54 less restrained or constrained than a 189:56 traditional free trade agreement for 189:57 example 189:58 we can talk about partnerships around 190:00 the supply chain 190:02 specific 190:04 partnerships around working together to 190:06 make sure that we and our allies in the 190:08 region have a redundant and secure 190:10 supply chain you know australia has 190:13 critical minerals that we all need we 190:15 can talk 190:16 specifically and somewhat more flexibly 190:19 about partnerships 190:22 interoperability 190:25 which is critical to facilitate digital 190:27 trade 190:28 tech standards you know we were talking 190:30 backstage about artificial intelligence 190:32 you know you wouldn't see 190:33 setting tech standards in a traditional 190:35 free trade agreement but it is vital 190:37 who's going to write the rules of the 190:39 road for emerging technology we want to 190:41 write the rules of the road with 190:44 our like-minded allies in this region 190:46 semiconductors you know so i think that 190:50 um 190:51 decarbonization and green should we see 190:54 this as sort of the trade equivalent of 190:57 what people talked about at one time of 190:58 a kind of coalition of democracies this 191:00 is 191:01 america and its allies in asia getting 191:03 together in a in an economic way which 191:05 does not involve a specific trade pact 191:08 but which involves a series of kind of 191:10 complicated alliances building up to 191:12 that i think that's exactly that's that 191:14 is well said 191:16 and you know you can hire me if you want 191:18 to 191:18 i pro i'm sure i could not afford you 191:22 but 191:24 i think that is well said and you know 191:26 we i'm here in the region beginning the 191:27 discussions laying the groundwork 191:30 we're likely to launch you know a more 191:32 formal 191:33 process 191:35 in the beginning of next year which will 191:37 culminate in a proper economic framework 191:39 in the region 191:40 and does that mean an actual agreement 191:44 exactly exactly do you accept that part 191:46 of the cost of this is as you know china 191:49 and for that matter taiwan have both 191:51 applied to join the cptp 191:53 that that could be a consequence of it 191:55 that china becomes part of the trade 191:58 agreement that america left under donald 192:00 trump yeah 192:02 so i will 192:04 say this china is going to do what china 192:06 is going to do and whether or not the 192:09 the current members of cptpp allow china 192:12 to come in that will be as it will be 192:15 what i'm talking about is is is about 192:19 working with our allies in the region 192:22 allies we've had for decades in an 192:25 incredibly important and fast growing 192:27 region 192:28 you know in the indo-pacific 192:30 940 million people are entering the 192:33 middle class 192:34 in the next seven to ten years 192:36 you know it's 192:38 4.6 billion people some here in 192:40 singapore some of the best innovation 192:43 and 192:44 technology in the world so this isn't 192:47 about china this is about developing 192:50 robust commercial and economic 192:52 relationships with with our partners in 192:54 the indo-pacific where we have had 192:57 a robust relationship for a long time 192:58 but for the past few years i mean the 193:00 elephant in the room the reality is 193:03 america has been absent we have been 193:05 absent from the largely absent in the 193:08 past few years and when i am here in the 193:11 region 193:12 there seems to be a strong pull 193:15 to have us back and so we want to work 193:18 towards this agreement one last thing on 193:20 that i mean watching or listening to 193:23 wang shi-shan talking earlier it was 193:25 interesting to me how many times he 193:27 mentioned the word multilateral 193:28 multilateral multilateral 193:31 does it sort of worry at all that china 193:33 might be seen as 193:35 taking up the banner of multilateralism 193:36 whilst america is seen in this more a la 193:39 carte way 193:41 so again i 193:43 think that we just have to as i often 193:45 say we we have to kind of 193:48 run faster in america and play our game 193:50 in america we 193:52 we have our strategy 193:55 we are america is a fantastic and benign 193:59 and collaborative ally and partner 194:03 we have some of the best entrepreneurs 194:05 the deepest capital markets in the world 194:07 and a long history of working in this 194:08 region so we're going to do what we know 194:11 how to do and 194:13 you know china will do what it's going 194:15 to do 194:16 you mentioned international standards 194:18 and again just talking to henry 194:20 kissinger earlier that the all-important 194:22 issue 194:23 of artificial intelligence which also 194:25 goes into your brief on competitiveness 194:27 you know this is the industry of the 194:28 future 194:29 who is going to write the rules 194:31 of artificial intelligence and what do 194:33 you see as america's role in that so i 194:36 think this is an enormously important 194:38 topic 194:40 if you think about the internet 194:44 which of course was incredibly you know 194:46 powerful transformative disruptive it 194:48 primarily affected advertising in the 194:51 advertising market 194:53 and e-commerce you know retail 194:58 two relatively small pieces of our 195:01 economy 195:03 now you look at ai will change 195:07 fundamentally logistics biotechnology 195:12 health care 195:14 every single aspect of our economy 195:18 so i think that it's really impossible 195:21 to overestimate 195:23 the 195:25 you know what is coming in terms of 195:27 disruption transformation change and 195:29 progress 195:30 with respect to ai 195:33 which means first of all we have to get 195:36 it right in how we regulate 195:38 but secondly 195:40 we absolutely have to make sure 195:44 that like-minded partners who share 195:47 values around anti-discrimination 195:50 privacy 195:52 human rights 195:54 um 195:56 are together writing the rules of the 195:57 road so for example that's what i that's 195:59 part of what i'm talking about when i 196:01 sit down with malaysia when i sit 196:03 down with singapore i had a great 196:05 discussion yesterday with the tech 196:06 minister in singapore and exactly this 196:08 topic which is we have we share the same 196:11 values so we should be writing the rules 196:13 of the road we should be setting forth 196:15 the tech standards and governance models 196:18 for the appropriate 196:20 and safe use of ai are there 196:23 particular bits within that is there 196:25 particular sort of mini battlefields 196:27 within that yeah trying to set standards 196:29 in ai that you really want to focus on 196:32 so i would say this um 196:35 i think this has to be very use case 196:38 specific 196:40 so 196:40 ai as applied to 196:44 biotechnology will be different from ai 196:47 as applied to 196:48 logistics 196:52 and certainly there can be no room for 196:55 the use of ai 196:57 for you know surveillance or 197:00 um 197:01 [Music] 197:03 anything that pervades discrimination or 197:06 that kind of get you know gets into 197:08 ethical questions so it's it's an 197:10 enormously complex i think the trick the 197:14 trick is 197:15 use case specific industry specific 197:18 flexibility 197:20 right this is a this is an emerging 197:22 field we are in 197:24 the 197:24 i don't know a ton about sports so i 197:26 should be careful but you know like 197:27 second or third inning of ai so we have 197:30 to regulate and be be careful for the 197:32 dangers 197:33 but the potential is enormous so we have 197:36 to have some flexibility and sensible 197:38 regulations that we develop in 197:39 partnership with 197:41 industry and stakeholders and 197:44 our like-minded allies just that leads a 197:47 bit into the idea of american 197:48 competitiveness and i suppose 197:51 again many of the business people here 197:53 would would look at what's happening in 197:54 america 197:56 and they would see that there's been a 197:57 renewed focus and you've been at the 197:59 front of it in terms of sort of focusing 198:00 on industries focusing on different 198:04 um parts of the american economy to push 198:05 forward but they would also say look a 198:08 lot of biden's bills also involve things 198:10 like giving jobs to americans 198:13 unions all those things which is 198:15 precisely what goes down badly 198:18 in the rest of the world 198:20 is there an element that america first 198:23 harms america's attempts to help the 198:26 other side of your brief the trade brief 198:28 yeah 198:29 so like everything it's a balance you 198:32 know president biden is as you say 198:34 extremely focused on creating good 198:37 quality jobs in america 198:39 and good 198:40 emphasis on quality right decent pay 198:43 decent benefits decent working 198:44 conditions 198:45 having said that we are equally focused 198:49 on 198:51 kind of re-strengthening our 198:53 relationships with our allies 198:55 in in europe 198:56 uh in the indo-pacific and around the 198:58 world and i think that 199:01 you know we talk about onshore 199:04 but we're also talking about uh 199:06 friendshiring 199:08 it isn't realistic take semiconductors 199:10 it is a global complex supply chain 199:13 i'll be going to malaysia tomorrow 199:15 visiting advanced manufacturing 199:17 facilities and semiconductor facilities 199:20 that won't change 199:21 right and that is 199:24 that is that is okay that is a good 199:25 thing we don't think that everything can 199:27 be domestically produced 199:29 so we want to work with our allies and 199:32 and friend sure but yes of course we 199:35 also 199:36 want to enhance domestic supply of 199:39 uh semiconductor chips do you think do 199:42 you think the nature of the 199:43 debate about competitiveness has changed 199:46 partly because of what's happening with 199:47 china but also 199:49 partly because of covid it has made 199:51 countries think 199:53 countries that used to espouse what 199:55 might be broadly described as kind of 199:57 free market principles it's made them 199:59 think much harder about what industries 200:01 they need to keep at home yeah 200:04 absolutely absolutely you know 200:06 semiconductors is the best example 200:09 there's a global shortage of 200:10 semiconductors i was at a 200:12 ceo roundtable earlier of a variety of 200:15 different companies and they were all 200:18 saying 200:19 we can't get our hands on enough chips 200:21 so there's a you know 200:23 global demand is vastly outstrip global 200:26 supply in the united the united states 200:30 effectively and you know 200:32 invented or the semiconductor industry 200:34 was born in the us 200:36 and we in search of cheap labor overseas 200:39 we've watched that dwindle we now make 200:42 you know zero 200:44 percent of the world's most 200:45 sophisticated chips in america we only 200:47 make uh 12 or 13 percent of global 200:49 supply a couple decades ago we made 40 200:51 percent 200:52 so we absolutely need to increase 200:55 domestic supply 200:57 by the way not necessarily just by 200:58 american companies 201:00 you know like we have there are 201:02 companies in japan and 201:05 korea and taiwan which 201:08 which we hope will set up shop in 201:10 america and have domestic production 201:12 but at the same time 201:15 we do need to collaborate even in a 201:18 tighter way with our allies i mean these 201:21 global supply chains are by their name 201:24 which are global 201:25 um 201:26 and we have to shore up those 201:27 partnerships and it's about it's about 201:29 the supplies as well like critical 201:31 minerals minerals for batteries you know 201:34 minerals for semiconductors so it's 201:37 you know complex you can imagine 201:39 somebody though from an american 201:41 perspective saying look at you know 201:44 the the administration has come in 201:46 talking about the need to build a bigger 201:48 technology 201:49 industry but you're also the people who 201:51 are pushing anti-trust policy which i 201:53 know is not yours towards the big tech 201:55 giants 201:56 you see a lot of people here from from 201:58 from big banks and so on you look at 202:00 wall street it's another 202:02 massive area of 202:04 american competitive strength and yet 202:06 there's definitely some desire to reign 202:08 in wall street in the in the in the 202:09 biden administration 202:11 how do you sort of from somebody who's 202:13 trying to sell u.s competitiveness but 202:15 also bring the democratic party with you 202:17 how do you do that 202:19 i think it is really quite consistent 202:21 which is to say we're pro competition 202:23 [Music] 202:25 competition has what is what has 202:27 formed 202:29 the basis of such a successful 202:31 innovative and vibrant economy and so 202:36 whether it's big tech or any other you 202:38 know big company if they if 202:40 if there are anti-competitive 202:43 factors at play that hurts competition 202:46 that hurts startups that that snuffs out 202:49 innovation 202:51 the american capital markets are as you 202:53 say robust and liquid 202:56 and that that is a good thing right 202:59 america is still 203:01 the best place to start a business 203:04 you don't see a kind of contradiction 203:06 between i suppose the progressive wing 203:07 of the democratic party and your job to 203:09 the extent that there is i suppose 203:11 considerable 203:13 anger with capitalism and various sorts 203:15 of it on one part of the democratic 203:17 party and you on the other hand are 203:18 trying to boost 203:20 american business i would say this 203:23 it is 203:24 true 203:25 i am and president biden is you know 203:29 self-proclaimed capitalist and 203:30 self-proclaimed pro-business we want to 203:33 have policies which encourage innovation 203:36 and business growth and 203:38 and that is important having said that 203:41 look the excesses of capitalism 203:46 are on full display in america they have 203:47 led to a lack of competition 203:50 a concentration of wealth at the top 203:53 which is threatening 203:54 to our democracy and to capitalism 203:57 itself 203:59 so i don't i don't actually see 204:02 the tension i think 204:05 i actually think we cannot continue to 204:07 have a vibrant democracy or 204:10 entrepreneurial scene with this 204:12 concentration of power or wealth and so 204:15 i think it's healthy actually 204:18 i think you can be both you know i think 204:19 you can be both that you have to move 204:21 towards a more 204:23 inclusive 204:25 equal 204:28 form of capitalism 204:30 where businesses are successful but 204:32 workers are also successful you talked 204:34 about the excess of capitalism and one 204:36 very obvious area is the environment you 204:38 know we had copped last week 204:41 do you see that as america setting off 204:43 on a new 204:45 in a new way when it comes to to the 204:47 environment you heard mike earlier talk 204:48 about the necessity of getting rid of 204:50 coal and things like that is that part 204:52 of your vision is your how green is your 204:55 vision of american 204:57 the newly competitive america your your 205:00 building 205:01 they're very green totally green 205:03 [Music] 205:05 and in that regard a huge opportunities 205:08 for job creation for innovation and for 205:10 collaboration with our partners in in 205:13 the indo-pacific so 205:15 look the reality is we will not be able 205:18 to achieve 205:20 the goals that we all want to in need to 205:22 as it relates to deca 205:24 urbanization without more innovation 205:27 like scientists will tell you 205:29 25 of the goal will be achieved 205:33 by technology that is that doesn't exist 205:36 so that means you know 205:38 venture capital entrepreneurs innovation 205:41 research and development 205:43 bigger investments in research and 205:45 development um 205:47 are critical you know we just the 205:49 president just signed the trillion 205:50 dollar infrastructure package in that 205:52 package is the biggest climate 205:54 investment ever in the history of the 205:55 united states huge investments for 205:58 electric vehicle charging stations tax 206:00 incentives to innovate so 206:03 uh i 206:05 think there's a lot of innovation going 206:06 on in this region so i think very green 206:08 but i think if we do it right it will it 206:11 will create millions of jobs and the 206:14 challenge is that we have to bring 206:16 everybody along i mean the reality is if 206:18 you're in a coal affected community when 206:20 you hear climate change you get nervous 206:22 you hear i'm losing my job 206:25 so it's on us to have a just transition 206:27 and make sure that everybody's included 206:29 putting on you used to be a governor 206:30 famously but putting on that hat how 206:33 difficult is it to sell greenery on the 206:35 doorstep it can be difficult and i don't 206:38 think we i think we should be 206:40 real about the challenges it is 206:43 necessary and 206:45 we have to move forward 206:46 aggressively and and you know as 206:48 robustly as possible 206:50 but if you live in west virginia or 206:52 kentucky or ohio pennsylvania and it is 206:55 the only way you and your finger a third 206:58 or fourth or fifth generation coal 206:59 family 207:01 it can be difficult and i think that we 207:03 have to 207:03 [Music] 207:05 those concerns are valid you know i was 207:07 the governor of rhode island not a coal 207:09 community but a manufacturing community 207:12 and when i talked about tech 207:14 that made people a little nervous they 207:16 wanted old line manufacturing and so i 207:19 think if we will be successful in 207:21 bringing people along you have to be 207:23 real about the 207:24 challenge but also meet the needs you 207:26 know provide jobs ride new jobs write 207:28 job training 207:30 one last thing is that you know you as 207:31 you said you were a governor now you've 207:32 entered this horrific world of cabinets 207:35 and things where you're 207:36 part of it what's the biggest change in 207:38 that i mean you were always seen as one 207:40 of the great pragmatists of the 207:41 democratic party yeah once it actually 207:43 comes to 207:45 working in administration how different 207:46 is that 207:48 you know i'd like to think i still am a 207:49 great pragmatist a couple of weeks ago i 207:51 was able to resolve the 232 steel and 207:54 aluminum tariffs with the with the 207:56 europeans 207:58 i'm here you know practically looking to 208:01 kind of 208:04 make deals and and make things happen on 208:06 the supply chain issues i'm in the 208:08 middle talking to businesses so i'm 208:11 so far finding it to be 208:14 a place in this administration and the 208:16 president encourages this get things 208:18 done you know i'm not one for the 208:21 high-minded jargon like let's get 208:24 things done and uh so far i've been able 208:26 to find my spots to do that with 208:28 slightly more jet lag um 208:29 quite a bit more jet lag 208:31 secretary thank you very much for 208:33 talking to us thank you 208:38 [Applause] 208:49 please welcome to the stage andrew brown 208:54 [Music] 209:06 sorry um before you go uh thank you john 209:09 thank yo